Click on NOTE CATEGORIES to browse by topic, read through the entire archives, or type a topic in the search box.On this episode of the Move Your DNA podcast, Katy and her special guest Dani Alexander reflect on the past year, discuss movement goals for 2024, and emphasize the importance of choosing a guiding word. They also explore personal experiences with living in walkable communities, navigating perimenopause, and general aging. Looking ahead, they share specific goals and strategies for incorporating more movement into their life - plus they select their new movement theme words for the year.
OVERVIEW
(time codes are approximate)
00:03:40:00 - Reflections on 2023 questions (Jump to section)
00:27:10:00 - Communications and farts (Jump to section)
00:35:30:00 - Looking ahead to 2024 questions (Jump to section)
LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW
Katy’s Virtual Studio Membership Page
Podcast Transcript
(Music)
This is the Move Your DNA Podcast, a show where movement science meets your every YEAR life. I'm Katy Bowman, a biomechanist, author, and year-round mover. All bodies are welcome here. Let's get movin'!
(Music Fade)
Friends, according to the Gregorian calendar, it's 2024. And that means it's time for us to reflect on 2023. In 2011 I started using the same set of questions to take a look back upon what I had accomplished movement-wise, and to set me up for what I'd like to adjust going forward. And I would publish my answers on the blog, on the website. This is the fifth year that I've given my answers via the podcast. And joining me on this adventure is my former podcast co-pilot Dani Alexander. We like to get together still and do this little end-of-the-year tradition. And p.s. I really do this episode specifically because it helps me dedicate a bit of time to celebrating myself and my movement focuses. And it also helps me dedicate a bit of time to clarify for myself what I want this upcoming year to be. So, you can go download a set of these questions from the show notes and do it yourself.
KATY: Dani, welcome back to Move Your DNA or should I say, "Welcome home"?
DANI: Thank you. Thank you.
KATY: Are you very excited?
DANI: I am so excited. How many... I don't know how long we've done this but it's fun.
KATY: This is five. This would have been our fifth year.
DANI: Wow.
KATY: That's literally what I just said. You're like my children. You're like, "Why don't you tell me?"
DANI: Yeah (Charlie Brown Teacher voice)
KATY: Exactly, exactly. Turns out that's just the sound of my voice.
DANI: Ok well, what you just said about doing this specifically for you to check in, it just dawned on me that when we do this, I don't revisit those questions halfway through the year. And so this year that is what I'm going to do. I'm just slipping my answers or listening to this again in about 5 months and see where am I at with what I thought I would be doing. So, thank you for that. That just jolted something inside my brain.
KATY: That's a great idea. And I have before looked back at those older years to see especially when we pick that single word to set the next year and to see, you know that's a pretty gross way of looking at it, but I have been able to be like, "Yeah, that word tracked for me that entire year."
DANI: That's amazing.
KATY: Which has been great. Some of the little things might not have flowed all the way through but that word tracks. And they're still all great words. They're still all my favorite words.
DANI: Oooh, wow. Maybe sometime you should do a show just on those.
KATY: Just on the words.
DANI: Break it down.
KATY: And your words too. You should bring it up.
DANI: I have all the best words. All right.
KATY: I just want to say for those of you who have listened to this for five years, more have read it for more than that, I just edited the questions down a little bit this time. They're still the same but I just changed some of the language to make it tighter. And what do you want to say to the listeners? Anything?
DANI: No. I'm just happy to be doing this with you and I think if you're gonna mix it up, let's mix it up where instead of us going back and forth, I will just do one whole swath, and then you come in and do one whole swath.
KATY: Right.
DANI: Does that sound good?
DANI: Ok, all right. So, what was your biggest health triumph or biggest movement win in 2023?
KATY: I think it was moving through injury. I did a whole podcast just about a foot injury - maybe one or two episodes back from this one. And successfully negotiating an injury was my win for this year.
DANI: That's a pretty big one.
KATY: It was a big one. What about you?
DANI: Mine was increasing my hip mobility.
KATY: Awesome.
DANI: So what was the smartest health or movement decision you made in 2023 or your favorite best movement choice?
KATY: Well, I think it was saying "yes" to any of my children's suggestions to move with them. And this is that psychological flexibility that we've talked about before. There's other podcasts on it with Dr. Diana Hill. I really picked that up. When you've got someone that you want to move with or you wished they moved more with to be able to look for those opportunities where they're asking you to move. And it turns out my kids are asking me to move all the time. None of it is the types of movements that would be in my top, or even the top four choices of movement that I would like to do, but learning how to say yes to that. Being with them and supporting them IS in my top things that I want to do. So saying yes to everything. So I have done all sorts of...
DANI: Yeah. Just tell me one or two things. Now I'm really curious.
KATY: Well, I mean it's just like tumbling. It's leaping over things. It's racing them. It's doing everything that you're gonna fail at all of the time. It's trying to get on this wobble bike board thing. It's wrestling. Arm wrestling.
DANI: Oh ... (laughs).
KATY: You know what I mean. It's Sumo, "Can we play sumo?"
DANI: Oh I love it.
KATY: Right. And it's actually awesome. And challenging. And exactly what I want in moving more. It also would fill all those blank holes in my movement diet, things I don't normally do. So I'm totally grateful for it and I can feel the resistance to it. But it's been a great personal movement connection with other people's decisions to be able to do that. Basketball. Ice Skating. It doesn't matter. I do it all.
DANI: I love it. You're so awesome.
KATY: What about yours?
DANI: For me, it was not that cool. It was just moving to a more walkable community finally. Which I have wanted forever. Since I met you I have wanted that and I've always lived in the 'burbs and now I can walk and if I want, shop. And you know, run errands, and ... (sighs) ... that's been huge. Finally.
KATY: It's been huge. Yeah. That move, if you will, is very helpful in picking up physical activity without needing to schedule it. Outside of getting other stuff done, for sure.
DANI: All right. So what single word best sums up your 2023 health and movement experience?
KATY: Well, this is a hyphenated word. It's stop-start. Because I had two big injuries. I had my foot injury. And then I had sort of my chronic back issue that comes up every two or five years. It happened to come up and they're definitely related to each other. So I would have these big ideas of what I was going to do and then boom, have my feet taken out from underneath me. And then I would work on that and it was getting better "I'm gonna do this." And then, boom, have something else happen. So it was a lot of stop-start. I never, ultimately, didn't do anything but I had to keep scaling back my grand illusions of things back to what was possible. So it definitely felt like I was chugging along a little bit.
DANI: Right. All of us have experienced that at one time. Well, many times.
KATY: Or more.
DANI: Yeah. I'm sure everybody identifies with that one. Mine was really simple, no hyphens, just listen.
KATY: Mmm.
DANI: I learned to listen to signals. Where as if something would happen with my body and I'd go "Why is this happening?" And it's just trying to tell me - so it was just listen.
KATY: Yeah. I love that.
DANI: What is the greatest lesson you learned about yourself this past year?
KATY: It's actually sort of along the lines of what you just said as I'm in perimenopausal time. Right? Yay?
DANI: Yay.
KATY: I really liken it - as my friend and your friend too, Dr. Jeannette Loram ... Hi Jeanette if you're listening. She's a biologist. She just said something a long time ago that was so clarifying for me which is perimenopause, menopause, is just a developmental stage. It's a developmental stage. And like you're not trying to push it off. It's just the phase that you're in. So I had my children a little bit older, so I'm at almost 48, starting this journey as my kids are going through puberty. And we're both experiencing changes - we're both in the developmental stage. They're in, I won't say different directions. Because they're both in the same direction. But there's some things are waxing and some things are waning for us both. But it's real. And just recognizing in myself, talking to myself, listening to myself - Oh the same things I'm trying to coach them on is like, how to have good interoception? How do you listen to the signals of your body? Look at your body and what it's telling you. It's showing you things are happening. And you can try different inputs and there's different outcomes of those inputs. The same goes for me as I'm learning to deal with brand-new chemistry. I am not as familiar with this version of myself as I have been with previous versions of myself. So just recognizing that I need time. I need this year, I need these five years - I'm not sure what it is yet - to understand myself and my needs because they're different. In the same way that trying to still parent your 13-year-old like you parented them when they were 7 or 8. I can't parent myself now like I parented myself 3 or 4 years ago.
DANI: Yes.
KATY: So that's my biggest takeaway.
DANI: Wow. We have the same takeaways. Mine is that as I get older I have to work twice as hard to build the things that it was easy for me to build. Like muscle. I was one of those people who could really, quickly, easily, could build muscle. And now it takes longer. And I'm just accepting that and working with that. And then also digestive changes. All those things that you can't rail against. You can't fight against. You can't force them. So it's better to work with them, accept them, and listen to what you're being told when those things happen.
KATY: Yes.
DANI: Did you ever read a book called My Stroke of Insight?
KATY: Long time ago. The woman who has a brain injury?
DANI: Yeah. A woman who had a stroke.
KATY: A long time ago.
DANI: Kind of just talked her way out of it. It's kind of that similar thing. It's like, "Well I can't do those things like I did before but I still can do all these other things. I just need to figure out how to work with that." Those chemistry changes. So. It's fun. When are you gonna write a menopause book?
KATY: Well, it's definitely been on my mind. This could be the next one of just ... I really want to do one in a way that - there's the going through puberty books for kids. I want to go going through adult version of puberty where there's cartoony and really is fun and light but really helps you go, "Ok, I see." And I'm sure there's a lot of books like that on the market, but I'm looking specifically towards movement.
DANI: Yes.
KATY: You know. Not just exercise and not fitness and not just muscle mass but really connection to others - connection to yourself. Connection to others - connection to nature. Connection to all the things that you find important through movement. At any age or stage but specifically this one.
DANI: Good. That would be good. Ok. Well, I really liked your answer from last year so what was the most loving service you performed this year in 2023?
KATY: What was my answer last year?
DANI: You became a CASA volunteer.
KATY: Oh ok, right.
DANI: And that was just like an advocate. And that was so - I thought that was very noble. I was very proud of you.
KATY: Oh thank you.
DANI: For doing that.
KATY: Along similar lines but a little bit different but motivated by the same things is I volunteer teach outdoor physical education for a local school here. A local public school.
DANI: Awesome.
KATY: And it's sort of for the same reason. It's a loving service because I do - I have such a great love for movement. The tool of movement. The medicine of movement. However, you like to think about it. A big love for the benefits of being outside. The difference between indoor and outdoor movement. The love for the childhood period of time and recognizing that schools - the kids are indoors almost all day long. The period of time - not even talking about moving or not - being inside or not is under 20 or 30 minutes a day. It's very small. And so going ok well there's so many things going on in the world that need a lot of solutions and it's quite overwhelming so I'm always like, "What can I do? On the ground and with my own feet? Affecting the people that I can see right now?" And I said ok I'll do this and I love it. I mean it's very challenging so hats off to everyone out there teaching kids in school.
DANI: Yeah.
KATY: And outside movement and all these things. But yeah. I do it and I love it.
DANI: When I was in Montana I did a volunteer - homeschool kids. They offered a gym class for homeschool kids because - and it was very challenging but also super rewarding. Because some of them discovered things they'd never even felt before.
KATY: Yeah.
DANI: That they could do. That was cool.
KATY: What was yours?
DANI: Me - well it was pretty much my job. It requires a tanker truck full of compassion. And so I just give all day long. But then I get to see the effects of that love and compassion as part of a daily diet with the kids and families that I work with. And then that makes it really - it just keeps giving. Fills my cup over and over again.
KATY: Yeah and for those who don't know you're doing occupational therapy.
DANI: Yes. Pediatric occupational therapy. That is my biggest service. What was your biggest piece of unfinished health or movement business in 2023?
KATY: Everything I couldn't do because of my foot. I really feel there's a lot of grief for things like my annual backpacking trip, or just all the miles or the long walks - I logged a lot of miles but never long. And long to me is a completely different expression of myself and feeling. So it was just that as far as I would have felt I had completed 2023 more like myself. Or the old version of myself if I had done all those. But I didn't. So whatever. Yeah. What about you?
DANI: So I had wanted to really increase my cardio capacity because I ended 2022 with a really bad case of COVID that kind of put my lungs back to way way back. Bad. And I just didn't get as far on that as I wanted to. So...
KATY: Did you make any progress though?
DANI: I did. I did.
KATY: Great.
DANI: We'll talk about that later.
KATY: Oh, ok. Perfect. Spoiler alert.
DANI: Spoiler.
KATY: Dani did something for her cardio.
DANI: Yay for her. What movement goal or health goal are you most happy about completing in 2023?
KATY: Well, I was looking at this and going "I don't really know." And then it occurred to me and this is fairly recent so we're recording this at the end of the year - December. We get a little mini ice skating rink that pops up and is up for 6 or 7 weeks here. Going and ice skating is always very fun. I didn't grow up ice skating. I wasn't a rollerblader. But I can ice skate pretty well. And I love going and I've gone for years. This year - so also I did the - I've been talking a lot about grip strength. And doing I did the hand strength advent this year.
DANI: Which by the way, that was my favorite. I got back on social media to see what you were gonna do this year. And that was my favorite ever. I logged in every day so I could see it and do it.
KATY: Well, it's right up your occupational alley as well.
DANI: Mm-hmm.
KATY: So for me, I had been writing about how we really want to be hanging from our hands. All these things that are so important to the strength of your hands. So many people fall and fracture their wrists. It's so common as you know. I biffed it so hard ice skating which I have never done before. I'm not talking a cute little "mm, I fell." Nothing like - no it was ...
DANI: Like you were playing hockey?
KATY: It was ugly. Yeah. It was face down. And the rink - it was late at night so they hadn't zamboni'd in a while. The ice had a couple of cracks and also they had switched. I usually skate in hokey skater skates, not ice skating skates but I had ice skating skates on - that's what they had when they gave it to me. So if anyone knows this scene from the movie Toe Pick. I just either hit a crack or hit the toe pick. And it was going fast to just being flat on my face.
DANI: It's almost like a giant picks you up and throws you down hard. That happened to me as a kid. Yeah. Toe picks are the worst when you hit that.
KATY: I hit it and it knocked the wind out of me but I landed on my wrist. Face down but my wrists first. And then just full impact knocked the wind out of me. Bruised my wrist all the way across but had just the bruise. It was just a contusion. And so I just wrote about why doing - and I had taught a hanging and swinging class for a week. I had taught a pecs, planks, and pushups class for a week (both of those are on our virtual studio) those classes and then I had been doing this VSM. So I feel like I had wrists of steel. And so just to live through something that hard and be like, "I'm up!" I had to limp off just mostly because I couldn't breathe. But my wrist was fine. And I just feel triumphant about that.
DANI: You should. That is the most common wrist injury - that fracture to...
KATY: To catching yourself when you land.
DANI: Well good one on ya!
KATY: Thank you!
DANI: I do know, though, that you used to roller skate at rinks singing Raspberry Beret. I remember that.
KATY: Sings Raspberry Beret. That was for Otto.
DANI: So mine's the same. Getting that hip mobility back some. Yep. That was a good one for me. So, who are the three people that had the greatest impact in your health or movement this past year?
KATY: Um. First off is my local - this is just my local yoga teacher that I love. Their name is Roth Thing. And that's just classes that I attend here. And they're excellent for me. Dr. Diana Hill - I had mentioned her before. Just that psychological flexibility has been really helpful. I've always felt like I'm naturally psychologically flexible around movement but not so much around parenting.
DANI: That's a challenge.
KATY: Well it's a learning game. So that just really helped me with a lot of things. So I'm really grateful for that work. It's distressing in a way. When you figure out there's a lot of different ways to get your needs met...
DANI: Oh for sure.
KATY: It's really helpful. I have a podcast episode with her if you want to go back and find that. She has a book A.C.T. (or act) Therapy. It's just really helpful. Listen to the podcast. It's clarifying. I thought about this and I think it's Cal Newport who wrote a book called "Deep Work" And I highly recommend it. And at minimum signing up for his newsletter which only comes once a month. And it's the idea of how to not let this attention economy we're in usurp the best of you - I guess that would be my paraphrase. Because I think we're giving the best of our attention and even our creations through this very short frenetic medium. And deeper - and the time that's lost in between - switching from one thing to another is a lie. And so you sort of use up all of your time trying to dip into all these short things really fast.
DANI: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
KATY: And I've transitioned the way that I work. I've transitioned just a lot of things following the principle he outlines in that. And again it's about getting more done, which allows me to get more movement in. But also the way my days don't have as much stress. My work time.
DANI: Mm. That's good.
KATY: Less stress when I'm using those principles.
DANI: I'm gonna check it out.
KATY: What are your three? Yeah, check it out.
DANI: So you, even though we only talk a few times a year, I feel like your work and just the mad skills with which you teach it will inspire and inform me to the end of my days. I always tell people you saved my life...
KATY: Awww.
DANI: ... because I believe you did. The path of pain I was on, I wouldn't have lasted. So you will always be in that top three.
KATY: Oh. Thank you!
DANI: And my companion. Who is the best student I've ever had? Sometimes, maybe you don't experience this but teaching movement and restorative exercise, we don't always practice what we teach. We're really good at getting others the tips and tricks and here's how you can fold this in. But then I'll go for a long time without that proactive care. And he does that so then it inspires me. He is purposely going down and being quadraped and doing all this stuff then I'm gonna get down and do that too. So he's a good influence to remind me to practice what I teach. And then my chubby little dog, Choncho. His need to walk folds in so nicely with my need to walk. So we were meant for each other.
KATY: Choncho.
DANI: Yes, Choncho needs his walks and so does Dani.
KATY: Who is walking who?
DANI: He's walking me. So what is your greatest health risk you took in 2023?
KATY: I have nothing for this.
DANI: That's ok.
KATY: Tell me yours. I have nothing.
DANI: I took up walk running because I wanted to increase my cardio and I had a really old knee injury from the 80s from snowboarding. And it has really affected my knee mobility. So I didn't know that it was something I could do. But I just went slowly into it and that was how I started working on increasing my cardio. That was the thing. I really liked it. I like that kind of rush that I would get. I walk and then run. Walk and run. Block on block on.
KATY: That's great. That's how all the training guides for all the long increasing your ability to run, that's what it looks like.
DANI: Cool. So what was your biggest health surprise in 2023?
KATY: You've already covered it. It's how fast the changing hormones affect strength. It took so little for me to maintain strength before and now it is daily. It needs to be like eating.
DANI: Yeah.
KATY: And just the recognition of "that's just how it is." There's no trick. You're not going to biohack your way...
DANI: There's no hack.
KATY: ...out of it. There's no hack for it. In the same way that you can't hack out brushing your teeth. Although someone will be like "No really there is - there's a new thing." Maybe there is but I need to ... strength has moved up above other things or equal to other things. It was always there. I don't really have a hierarchy but it needs to be a daily thing.
DANI: Mm-hmm. I hear ya. For me, it's how quickly that mobility can disappear when you're not doing anything. I had really flexible hips and then I went to work at this clinic when I first began my practice as a therapist. And we had to sit at these tiny little tables with these tiny little chairs (the kindergarten-sized chairs). And I couldn't get any kid to sit on the floor with me because they were so conditioned to these chairs. And so in order to work with them I would sit in these chairs with them. And then within a matter of months, I couldn't sit criss-cross applesauce. And it was so freaky to me. I was like, "Wait a minute. I've been doing this for years."
KATY: Doesn't matter anymore.
DANI: "Why can't I do this?" And it was a stressful clinic so I would work 10-hour days and come home and just want to flop. I didn't want to do anything for myself. And about 3 months in it was not there. So that was a really big - how quickly our bodies can change their shape with what we're doing was really hitting me in the face hard.
KATY: Yeah.
KATY: Well being a public person, one of my, a relationship that I have to negotiate often that's maybe not the relationship that other people have is just the relationship with the public, which mostly comes in the form of comments or those types of things. I am very fortunate where I think that all of you out there listening and interacting are actually some of the most excellent people on the internet. But even just reading the way other people comment and interpret - not even on my stuff but other people's things - I'm so confused by it. I'm like, "I just don't understand this format of communication." So I'm in this relationship with this broad public medium of discourse. And what's improved about my relationship this last year is recognizing that comments are sort of like farts.
DANI: (laughs)
KATY: They are sometimes accidental. Sometimes on purpose. They're all about what they've got going on inside of them. And they're all impermanent. You know what I mean? They're all just sort of transient and impermanent - however you like to think about it. And I guess that reframing - I knew it sort of intuitively already. Of course, sure, this is just what's going on. But just to have this sort of biological comparison for me was really helpful. "Woah, check out that fart." And then, you know, you can just sort of ...
DANI: (laughs) Oooh, that's a stinky one.
KATY: Yeah.
DANI: Oh that one was wet - no get out of here.
KATY: Every once in a while - we know all the different farts that will come in here. Some of them leave more marks than others. But anyway.
DANI: Maybe someday you can do a podcast on just farts.
KATY: Yeah. So that just - because of the way that my neurology works, stuff like that really lingers. Other people have no problem letting stuff go but for me, it's like "I must solve that problem. Sounds like that person really has a problem." And I will give it my attention. I can't really distinguish between what comes in that format or my kid asking me something. I hold all human requests sort of in the same space because, again, of just the way my nervous system works. And I recognize that not everyone has that same thing. So giving it a hierarchy was really helpful for me.
DANI: Good. I like that and I'm gonna adopt that. I always tell my kids "What other people think of you has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them." And it's basically what they ate. If they're gonna fart, it's what they ate. They're stressed out. So I love it! Thank you! For me, this was a big one for me. It was my relationship with the present. My mind has been always racing forward. I've been very ambitious about "What am I gonna do? When am I gonna do this?" And then something switched. I don't know if it's just age, or contentment, or perimenopause, or what. But something switched for me and my whole life - I was always thinking toward the future and now I'm very much in the present. I'm enjoying the little things that happen in the present. I'm not so much worried about what I'm gonna do or what's coming up. And I always really been grateful and enjoyed those little things in life, but now it just seems like technicolor. Everything is super cool. I just feel like a silly little old lady. "Oh look at that! Well, how 'bout that." I'm not racing all the time. It's very stress-free. It's weird to me but I much prefer this. To have my mind empty of all those unnecessary reaching forward thoughts all the time.
KATY: So I feel like life, what we've really summed up here is, life is sort of like this Benjamin Buttons movie. Where you start off as a toddler and then you're a teenager, then you have the middle age, and then you go back to being a teenager, and then you're a toddler again.
DANI: It's true. It could be.
KATY: And you're just sitting there blowing bubbles.
DANI: Very much in the present. And I did, so a book that really inspired me - I'm gonna check out your Cal Newport, and it kind of reminded me of this book that kind of folded into how I changed this year and it was The 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman, The Mortal's Guide to Time Management. And it's really about the present and it's fascinating. So I'll send you a link to it.
KATY: And we'll put it in the show notes too. Because everyone's gonna be like "Tell me about that book!"
DANI: Exactly, it's a good one. I highly recommend it. Oh. My least favorite question: A compliment that you would have liked to receive but didn't?
KATY: Good setup. Good setup.
DANI: (laughs)
KATY: Um, you're like, "This question blows".
DANI: This sucks, go ahead and answer it.
KATY: For me, I wish my chickens would have told me how great of a chicken mother I am. I do so much for these chickens that I love and never once have they said anything.
DANI: They give you eggs?
KATY: Not a thank you. They not only give me eggs. They give me eggs on my front porch. They come up and lay them right on the chair.
DANI: That is chicken for thank you. Did you not know that.
KATY: I did not know that.
DANI: That is foul for "you rule". You are the best poultry mamma ever. Yes.
KATY: "Let me bring it right to you." Yes, I didn't even think of them laying their gifts at the helm of my house.
DANI: They don't want you to extend the effort of looking through poopy straw to get the eggs. They're like, "Here you go. Clean and fresh. On the porch. Look before you step."
KATY: No they come up on the dog's chair and lay it there!
DANI: Oh my gosh!
KATY: So it's kind of a relationship - the dog and the chickens are working it out. It's not all of them. Just a couple of hens that are - They literally come and knock on the doors to be like, "Where's our scraps and here's an egg."
DANI: Here's an egg.
KATY: So yeah.
DANI: Trade ya!
KATY: Thank you for reframing it for me.
DANI: Yeah sure. I'm gonna skip that one because I've never liked it.
KATY: Although I will say that one of the things that my kids find most annoying about me is that I will just compliment people when I feel like it. If I have this thing in myself of going "Wow, I've noticed this about you..."
DANI: YES!
KATY: "...as you've come in." I just say it now because if anyone has ever done that for me, it can completely change the vibe of the day so I do it all the time. Much to everyone's horror.
DANI: Yes. No -
KATY: I do it anyway.
DANI: I do the same thing. My answer to this is I have an intentional practice where I just, whenever it comes into my head, I say it for compliments. And my goal is to compliment somebody that - a stranger - at least twice a week. So find strangers - "Oh you have nice eyes" or "Oh you really did that well" whether it's at the grocery store or what. And then compliment somebody I know once a day. And that's just who I am because I feel like it makes people feel seen. And I don't feel like we get enough of that. We don't get to feel seen by others enough. That's why I feel it's a simple, cheap, easy way to help others feel seen. So just throw out that little compliment.
KATY: That's a good balance.
DANI: Even if your kids think you're an old lady.
KATY: Well I am an old lady.
DANI: My kids do that to me. "Oh no, why?" and I'm like, "But she had really pretty eyes."
KATY: Yeah. And I think it's also just a good balance because there is so much pointing out of where someone got it wrong as a way of helping. You know, like that's the new sort of thing. And so, fair enough. But also we could be pointing out the things that are right. Could you balance it? Could you make a sandwich? Did we not all learn the sandwich of the what you did right, what you could improve on, what you did right, sandwich? I feel like that's a thing.
DANI: Right. It's a thing.
KATY: It doesn't have to be two to one but ...
DANI: I don't know if we've ever had the same answer but there you go.
KATY: I always hate those questions.
DANI: Yeah, me too.
KATY: Sorry everybody.
DANI: That's ok. They don't care. They're fine with it. What else do you need to say or do to be complete with this year? And you have 3 days I think.
KATY: Well, I think it's just a frustrated set of noises and probably some tears.
DANI: (laughs)
KATY: It's just that. It's sort of like, huh-huh-huh-huh - that's the noise. And again, this is not a podcast about anything larger than the movement part.
DANI: Yes.
KATY: And so I have a tremendous amount of thanks for things. But also acknowledging that my frustrations with my physical self just needed - I need to let that noise out. And maybe some tears.
DANI: That's good.
KATY: What about you?
DANI: I would just say thanks. Because this really has been an amazing year for me. All these good extraneous things that are non-movement related. And then I'm still standing. So thanks 2023! Thanks!
KATY: Yeah right. I could say thanks to every year. We're here!
DANI: (laughs)
DANI: So I'm gonna pull it forward and I want to increase my cardio capacity and I've got some measureables here. Okay? So that I can run from a zombie while carrying my chubby little dog for at least 4 city blocks without becoming winded. That's my smart goal. (laughs)
KATY: OK, I'm coming to Boulder this year! I mean I already have it planned to come so I am meeting you and can we do that together?
DANI: We can do that together. It depends on when you're coming.
KATY: We can pass the dog.
DANI: I may only get 10 feet. But.
KATY: I feel like it's May.
DANI: Okay.
KATY: You've got time, sister. You've got time.
DANI: How about you?
KATY: For me, it's adding one strength-challenging session. I didn't want to put strength training session because there's even - I feel like I can do certain Yoga things, for example, to strength train. So I'm not talking necessarily lifting weights. But one strength-challenging session a day. 15 minutes or 75 minutes. Anything in there. But just making it sure. It's like a brush your teeth situation. It's like did you do it today? So it can be something as simple as a set of push-ups and lunges and whatever it can be, but it will be a priority for this year.
DANI: That's good.
KATY: What health advice do you want to give yourself for 2024?
DANI: I think continue to listen, for me. The body moves and works differently in perimenopause and I need to respect that.
KATY: Yeah.
DANI: How about you?
KATY: Respect. For me, it's to really consider and revisit not doing any work on social media. Because I don't think I'd regret it. But I haven't figured out how to make those adjustments. But just to really remove that as a to-do for myself. And I already do very little but I would like to even take it back a little bit more. And it has to do with the deep work stuff.
DANI: Right.
KATY: How are you going to change your movement results in 2024?
DANI: I'm gonna do more folding of movement into my day. Back to stacking. More stacking. And just more temptation bundling. "I really like listening to this book..." Because I walked for the past year without any noise in my head just to see what that was like. And I enjoyed it. But I noticed I can walk more when there's a juicy book waiting in my headphones. So just more stuff like that. Stacking.
KATY: How could you get more running? What's your strategy for more of the actual... because I always think of running as something that's more challenging to fold into other things because it does sort of take - for me, it would take making sure I had the right bra on, for example, that I might not have.
DANI: Oh yeah. Boobs are a hassle sometimes.
KATY: Right. That's right. And I'm just curious. This is sort of going off the script. But have you thought about how you'd fold in something that gets you closer to what you want your biggest health triumph to be?
DANI: Yeah I just keep doing that run-walking. Because for me it's very finite. I know at the end of that block I'm gonna run for another block. And having it be finite - "Oh I only need to make it to that block". And then when I really get going with it after a couple months I push it to two blocks. So for me, it's just doing walk the chubby dog and run.
KATY: Add a little running...
DANI: Add that walk right in.
KATY: Making over your already existing walk.
DANI: Yes, how about you?
KATY: Yeah, I guess for me it's to really - I'm sort of fascinated by the idea of a not-to-do list instead of a to-do list. I've been working on pruning. So a not-to-do list is to look at what is on your to-do list to see what really needs to be there.
DANI: Oh my gosh. It's like we're twinsies.
KATY: Twinsies. Why? What do you have?
DANI: Well that's kind of like been my whole theme this past year is figuring that out. What to say no to. And saying no to things that you want to do. That's harder than saying no to things that you don't want to do.
KATY: Right.
DANI: So. Yeah.
KATY: Yeah, Right. One of the challenges is with time. We're just doing way more things than people have done before. Way more different things too. We've always had the same time and had the same needs. But there's just so many things filling up everything. So the not-to-do list is something I've been exploring and am enjoying. What are you trying to complete? Or what would you be happy to complete next year?
DANI: Menopause. (laughs) Because I'm in year 3 or 4 of it.
KATY: You mean perimenopause.
DANI: Perimenopause is just a day. Believe it or not, menopause is one day.
KATY: Menopause is just a line. When you hit your marker. But you never know until you look back, right? It's one of those things where you say, "Oh that was the last one."
DANI: Right. So just be done.
KATY: It could be today. You could be in menopause right now!
DANI: Whaaaat?
KATY: But you won't know it for 12 months.
DANI: Exactly. And then after that 12 months, there's that one day that's actual menopause and then every day thereafter is post.
KATY: What happens that day? Does smoke come out of your eyes?
DANI: Yeah, like a guy in a gorilla suit shows up with balloons. And plays the harmonica.
KATY: Surprise! Surprise!
DANI: Yeah. What are you trying to complete? How about you?
KATY: I am - a research trial. I am working on a research trial. I don't want to say more about it than that. But it'll be complete in the next year. And it's been a lot of good work and I'm excited to have moved through it.
DANI: That's awesome. So exciting! Have to learn more!
KATY: It's cool. What indulgence are you going to experience? And then the same question is, what are you willing to do. But I don't know if we should ask you that because I feel like we could go anywhere with that. So how do you want to nourish that part of you? And through movement maybe?
DANI: Well, monthly massages. For me, that's really helpful and I didn't do it for a year.
KATY: Hmmmm.
DANI: And I decided that's money I would rather not spend somewhere else to spend on that. It finally occurred to me that it's not an indulgence it's an important part. And I have the best massage therapist in the world who is also a huge Katy fan and it's just - it's worth it. What am I willing to do? Spend less on silly things.
KATY: Yeah. And then massage is a type of movement. It's a movement that gets into the nooks and crannies in a way that a lot of exercise can't.
DANI: Right. What about you? How far will you go for what?
KATY: Well literally? Many miles. So my indulgence this year is sort of a bucket list item where a sister and I and maybe some of my other siblings (we're not sure) are going to walk Hadrian's Wall. Or want to walk it. That's the plan. Hadrian's Wall - Hadrian was a Roman emperor who put a wall across England - sort of dividing Scotland away from England. At the time walls were super in fashion. It was around the same time the Great Wall of China went up. So most of it's destroyed. But there's still quite a bit of artifacts and it's a path. It's a historical trek that takes, maybe, if you're doing 20 miles a day it would take you a week. And it would take you 9 or 10.
DANI: Sounds beautiful.
KATY: Yeah so it was my father's dream. And so our family - his family - comes from one of the places on it. So he always wanted to do it so we've just always wanted to do it too. So we're gonna make that happen this year, hopefully.
DANI: That's exciting.
KATY: What would you like to most change about your health in 2024?
DANI: I think for me improvement on what is there instead of trying to recoup what I've lost. So last year I felt like I lost mobility and then spent all this time trying to recoup it. So this time it's keep up what I've got and improve upon it instead of lose stuff.
KATY: Maintain.
DANI: And then have to spend that time walking it back. So how about you?
KATY: It really is - I feel like - you know they say over the hill but for me, it feels like the first part of life is like a downhill coast as far as movement goes. And in older it's an uphill coast. So if you're on a bike, what would you have to do on the bike to keep from slipping backwards? That's what movement is like when you're a little bit older. So you have to pedal a little bit. You have to row forward a little bit because the nature of the hill, the nature of the current in the water is pushing you backwards. You don't have to go backwards, but you have to do more to go forward. If that makes sense.
DANI: Yes.
KATY: That's the way it feels or that looks on a graph to me. And for me, I guess it's not that different. It still relates also to just recognizing the hormonal shifts that I'm in and how those affect everything about me and my experience. So I don't want ... what I want to change is not that I'm in that space. What I want to change is how well I know myself at this stage. For example: One thing I've really realized is in order to sleep well through the night and to stay a reasonable temperature, I really can't eat after 6 pm. That's something I've just figured out. So there's all this trial and error. And I don't know if it'll stay forever. But that's the way it is right now.
DANI: Maybe not.
KATY: You just have to have these rules for yourself. This understanding. So I'm just trying to figure all those out. And I love it. Because you know me. I'm like a Dian Fossey-type person. So be able to figure it out is like a puzzle for me.
DANI: It is cool. It's like a little adventure and you're this anthropologist and you get to "Oh hey, you know, my farts smell like old books but I haven't been eating old books. Why is this?" Stuff like that.
KATY: Are you asking for a friend? Is this a thing?
DANI: I've never heard of such a thing. I completely concocted that out of nowhere. No. But yeah, it's kind of fun. I like that. I like that part of getting older is that anthropology part of it.
KATY: You're the anthropologist but you're also the treasure. And that's the amazing thing. And that's where I love the - that's what I feel so much about. Like so many ancient texts. You're observing but you're also the observed. I like that. I do'nt know if it's a paradox but I just like that. Paying attention to myself is helpful. Okay. What are you gonna learn in 2024? Just one thing.
DANI: Just one thing?
KATY: One thing.
DANI: I'm gonna continue to work on my proficiency in Spanish to help my Spanish-speaking clients better. To be better - to better serve them. So how about you?
KATY: Ok. I am really called to Jill Miller's work. Using the therapy balls to get into more nooks and crannies of my body. Because I feel like my relationship to strength and mobility is being influenced by my hormones. And I'm seeing more research on - one of the reasons for women, especially, there starts to be more pain and stiffness associated with this age is relating to this hormonal change. And so I've never really explored that as a tool. Certainly, I know her rolls and her balls and have collaborated on different programs but I thought it would be interesting to study the whole thing and to have a bigger toolbox to use for myself and just to let myself be a student. And those micromovements, whether they come from massage or self-massage, it's basically getting into the areas of your body that more gross movements can't get into. I am interested in that.
DANI: Actually her stuff was super helpful in me regaining that hip mobility to get into those deeper muscles.
KATY: I recognize it and this is, again, it's part of my toolbox going forward. That wasn't so high on the hierarchy before but as I get older or as these hormones change - I want to move this into my toolbox. Ok. Risk for 2024.
DANI: I don't have one.
KATY: No risk?
DANI: No. How about you?
KATY: For me, yeah. I'm putting out another book. It's risky, in a sense.
DANI: Is it?
KATY: It's risky. Yeah. It takes a lot of energy. And I don't have as much as I used to. And also because of where I am in my life needing to focus more energy on myself. And as I said, having kids that are going into the home stretch of parenting where I feel like they actually need me more now than when they needed me when I was younger. It's a challenge to do a big project that needs a little bit of support when I feel like my attention is already pretty narrow - small. I don't have as much attention to spend. But I felt like it needed to be done. And it's a workbook and it's how people can finally take everything that they've read and create a plan.
DANI: Oh cool! Awesome.
KATY: Yeah. So it's that. It works alongside other things. But yeah, it's risky. Because you have to get it done. You can't really say "Sorry, couldn't do it." It's risky.
DANI: Yeah. Oh, I look forward to it.
KATY: You know it's not a physical big risk, but you know what I mean.
DANI: Definitely.
KATY: What are you most committed to changing or improving in 2024?
DANI: Practicing "no" to most of the things I want to do and just focus on one to two things. So I have ADHD and all these ambitions but after reading that 4000-weeks book and learning about it's really - the important thing is to realize you've got this finite time and what are you going to do with it. You can't be "oh I gotta do this. I'll do this and this." Because saying no to things you want to do is harder than saying no to going to somebody's house who serves bad pot roast. You know.
KATY: Mm-hmm.
DANI: So narrowing down those ambitions.
KATY: Maybe that's why the book farts.
DANI: (laughs) See that's the first person I'm gonna say no to. Pot roast farty. No, but that's a big thing is saying I really want to do this and no I cannot because I am focused on this. So that's what my practice will be for that this year. How about you?
KATY: Ah, Español - para mi tambien.
DANI: Cool.
KATY: Yeah. Just keeping to work on my Spanish. Working on improving it for all the same reasons I wanted before, I want it even more now. And I've got good momentum. I'm gonna keep working on Spanish.
DANI: Good.
KATY: What underdeveloped talent are you willing or planning to explore this coming year?
DANI: So for me, I don't know if this would count as a talent but translating what I know about movement to be able to impart that onto the kids and parents that I work with in the most digestible sense, especially when they're not coming to me for that. But I see a need. So it's not like they're paying for a class and have this in mind, "Tell me anything." So being able to kind of translate that into a way that can work with families that are in stress or crisis or anything. So, that'll be - I want to develop that talent this year.
KATY: Verbally? You want to do it verbally or you want to create a handout for them?
DANI: I think verbally and the activity at first. And then creating the handout would be easy for me after but
KATY: Ok. Just figuring out what you want to give them.
DANI: Yeah. What about you?
KATY: I think the talents that are underdeveloped - or I shouldn't even say a talent - the skills that are underdeveloped in me are probably play and rest. I'm not really great at either one of those things. And I can feel my situation has been pulling more out of it. So I'm exploring those. Doing less is part of resting. But also you'll see that I'll be talking a lot more about restful movement. Like you had said. You come home at the end of the day and you can't really do anymore. Part of some of the work that I was doing for research has a lot to do with knowing when to use movement as a tool that sort of stimulates you and when to use movement as a tool to help regulate you.
DANI: Oooh. I love it.
KATY: Right because there's different ways to use it. And so really fleshing that idea out and sharing it. And again, sometimes it's not - the same way that exercise and physical activity are different categories of movement but they can be the same mode. Bike riding to work versus bike riding for exercise. Whether a movement is restful or not really depends on the intention that you put around it. It's not so much what you choose to do. Like walking. It's how you do it. It's why you're doing it. And so to get to another level of nuance of understanding movement in that way. That's gonna be my jam in 2024.
DANI: Cool.
KATY: What brings you joy and how are you gonna have more of that?
DANI: So I'm always grateful on a daily basis for a lack of aches and pains. I'm always grateful for what I can do. And then I weigh it against what are my aches and pains and "that's not so bad." And so I just want more of that. Go back to #3. Stacking. Just to fold that in. And back to #2 which would be listen and respect. All of those things. What about you?
KATY: It's the same thing. I really love long-distance walking. And I really like a lot of time outside in wild spaces. And so any way of combining those. I can just sit in outside space. I don't have to be walking through. But the more I can get myself into those spaces the more I am myself. So that's gonna be what I shoot for. Who are you most committed to loving and serving? Other than yourself.
DANI: The people under my roof. Because charity begins at home so that's it. What about you? Who are you most committed to loving and serving?
KATY: I mean, my feeling is just humanity. That's what comes up for me. I'm interested in all of it. I acknowledge and see all of it and all the work that needs to be done. And I don't think for a second that I can do all of the work. But I think acknowledging it and witnessing it needs to be done on a regular basis. And so right now even having a small ceremony for myself or for my family which is lighting a candle and sort of naming, just naming what's going on and you can light a candle and you can - that doesn't have to be the only thing. But it's so easy when we need some rest to not want to acknowledge it. And I just feel like acknowledging it and then having a teeny tiny ceremony can still be part of giving it space. So that's one step for me. Finally, this is the last one, what one word would you like to have as your movement theme? And would that be different?
DANI: (Sings) R.E.S.P.E.C.T. find out what it means to me. It's respect. What's goin' on, right here?
KATY: Right here. I like that. Mine's peace this year. Peace. And it just has the deep work when making choices. Do you go have the roast beef?
DANI: Well not at her house but...
KATY: Yeah right. The question is always "Will this create peace or is it creating agitation in some way?" And it doesn't have to do anything with effort. I don't conflate working hard and having to expend energy as opposed to peace.
DANI: Yes.
KATY: Peace for me is really being in alignment. So I'm gonna use peace this year.
DANI; I love it.
KATY: I think I could use that as a word. Ok, we did it!
DANI: We did it, yay!!!
KATY: We did it. Happy New Year!
DANI: You too. I hope you get all that you wish for.
KATY: It's like a birthday candle.
DANI: It is. But we should revisit. I'm gonna revisit this for myself. I'm gonna put a note after we hang up and put it in my calendar to "Hey check in with your list, goofball." See how you're doing.
KATY: I'll text you. I'll text you just these random things. "So how's that goin?"
DANI: (laughs) Can you run from a zombie with your fat dog yet? Huh?
KATY: Video evidence, please. Video evidence. Well, ok. I'm looking forward to seeing you maybe in Boulder. Maybe there's a roller skating rink there?
DANI: That would be awesome.
KATY: Is there a roller skating rink there?
DANI: I have never skated here but I'm sure there's got to be one somewhere.
KATY: Check it out. If there's an ice-skating rink I'd give it a try but...
DANI: Not in May.
KATY: Not in May. But there's a lot of indoor. There's a lot of indoor ice skating places. So anyway, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I just want to acknowledge...
DANI: Thanks for having me.
KATY: Yeah, thank you. These questions were compliments of Robin Blanc Mascari from years ago. Again, you can find everything in the show notes. Go to the website NutritiousMovement.com/podcast. You can find a link to the transcripts to all the episodes including this one and the questions that we just went through in this episode. Cut and paste. Add your answers. Answer them out loud. Write them down. I really am a fan of writing things down. It helps flesh them out. And hopefully, I'll see you soon, huh?
DANI: Sounds good! Happy New Year Everybody!
KATY: All right. Thanks so much, everybody. Bye!
MUSIC
Hi. My name is Vickie from California. This has been Move Your DNA with Katy Bowman, a podcast about movement. We hope you find the general information in this podcast informative and helpful but it is not intended to replace medical advice and should not be used as such. Our theme music was performed by Dan MacCormack. This podcast is produced by Brock Armstrong. And is transcribed by Annette Yen. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to audio. And find out more about Katy, her books, and her movement programs at NutritiousMovement.com.
MUSIC FADE
What was your biggest health triumph or movement win?
What was the smartest health or movement decision you made in 2023 or your favorite best movement choice?
What single word best sums up your 2023 health and movement experience?
What is the greatest lesson you learned about yourself this past year?
What was the most loving service you performed this year in 2023?
What was your biggest piece of unfinished health or movement business in 2023?
What movement goal or health goal are you most happy about completing in 2023?
What is the greatest health risk you took in 2023?
What was your biggest health surprise in 2023?
What important relationship improved most for you this last year?
What is a compliment that you would have liked to receive but didn't?
What else do you need to say or do to be complete with this year?
Looking ahead to 2024
What would you like your biggest health triumph or biggest movement win to be in 2024?
What health advice do you want to give yourself for 2024?
How are you going to change your movement results in 2024?
What indulgence are you going to experience? And what are you willing to do to do it?
What would you like to most change about your health in 2024?
What are you gonna learn in 2024?
Risk for 2024?
What are you most committed to changing or improving in 2024?
What underdeveloped talent are you willing or planning to explore this coming year?
What brings you joy and how are you gonna have more of that?
Who are you most committed to loving and serving?
What one word would you like to have as your movement theme?
