Katy Bowman’s latest book, while written with and for the older population in mind, is truly for every body at every age. This episode combines a one-on-one recording with Katy and Dani, and the Ventura, California live-audience book release party at The Alignment B.E.A.C.H., featuring Katy’s four septugenarian co-authors. The five authors answer audience questions and share how the book came about, their personal stories, and why this book can help anyone move with more function.
DANI: Hey everyone! It's Dani here. What you're gonna hear in this episode are two separate recording sessions that we put together because they fit very well and they're about the same subject. So you're gonna hear some differences in audio as we move between our typical recording environment and a live audience book release party in Ventura, California for Katy's book, Dynamic Aging. So, I hope you enjoy listening to it as much as we enjoyed recording them both. Thanks!
DANI: I also liked Joan's butt story. I'm like I...
KATY: She's gonna be so happy about that!
DANI: I know. (laughs)
DANI: Welcome to the Katy Says podcast where Dani Hemmat, that's me, and Katy Bowman talk about movement: the tiny details, the larger issues and why Movement Matters.
KATY: I'm Katy Bowman, biomechanist and author of Move Your DNA.
DANI: And I'm Dani Hemmat, a chronically curious movement geek. So today, we're gonna talk about your latest book, Dynamic Aging. And for some reason, I had it in my head that you had already co-authored a book, your first book, with Dr. Theresa Perales. But I don't know why I even thought that. Is it because she wrote the foreword to the original foot book?
KATY: Yeah, no, there's a podiatrist's forward but no, I wrote that.
DANI: Oh ok. So this is really your first book with co-authors and you have four.
DANI: Four co-authors.
KATY: I like to make up for lost time.
DANI: Yeah. I think you still need a couple more if we want to even out, like, books per co-authors. But, I cannot wait to meet these women. They seem pretty rad.
KATY: You never met any of them?
KATY: Yeah, they are exceptional. They are exceptional. As are you.
KATY: But they are, yeah, they are, I think they're going to change minds way more so than I ever could if I had written, like, presented this book on my own.
DANI: I agree with you. I agree with you. And so, I just want to say, if people are wondering how I get to meet them. I actually get to meet them this coming weekend for a little book release party and we're gonna do a Q&A with them in California.
KATY: That's right. You're coming to California. They are in California. I am going to California. You are going to California.
DANI: Heh Heh.
KATY: There will be meetings. There will be interviews. Yeah, bit release party.
DANI: Well, I'm pretty excited because these seem like seriously dynamic women.
DANI: And I think they added so much, like you said, I really... I don't think you could have, no offense...
KATY: None taken.
KATY: Whatever you're about to say, none taken.
DANI: It wouldn't have been the same book had you done it.
KATY: No. No.
DANI: I really like that they are such a huge part of it. Before we get into some of the things that I really love about the book and I haven't got my hard copy yet, I'm just saying, but I know you were mailing like a crazy woman for a while there.
DANI: How would you describe this book?
KATY: Good question. I like how we always just talk about something for a long time before saying what it is that we're talking about. We like to keep you on your toes, listeners. Dynamic Aging: Simple Exercises for whole body mobility. That's the title of the book and the subtitle. It is a book that introduces, perhaps, the idea that one of the reasons we tend, that maybe either people experience a decrease or a decline in their ability to move or maybe one of the reasons that stigma exists where like you just slow down as you get older.
KATY: That, we've kind of, our perception is that physical movement decline happens lockstep with aging. That's our perception of it. But the book is introducing ideas, like, well what if it's not that your tissues have this programmed to break down phenomena thus making movement less easy for you, but that you have actually been moving hardly at all and how you are able to move right now, if that's a decrease, is the result of your adaptation to not moving for a longer period of time. Meaning, let's say that one of the authors of this book, co-authors of this book, is 70 and I'm 30. She, and let's say we have the same exercise habit but around that exercise we have that same amount of sedentarism, which is all the other times when we're not exercising...what happens when you are sedentary for 60 years, that adaptation is going to be more significant than had I only been sedentary for 30 years. And so what if you could start working on the boundary of your sedentarism in eeking back that movability little bits at a time. So that's what the book is about. That's the general ... that's the introduction. Just like that, "boom, I don't think you're too old to move."
KATY: "I think that you've been not moving for a really long time" and those are two different things. Because one of them kind of seems like your tissues are not movement friendly.
KATY: Because of your age, right? Where it's like, "well what if it's because of your habit?" And you can't change your biological age, your chronological age. But you can change your habits.
Music transition to live book launch at The Alignment B.E.A.C.H. in California.
DANI: I think maybe we should talk a little bit about how this book came to fruition.
KATY: Sure. Who wants to start.
DANI: So go ahead and talk to Mr. Mike.
CO-AUTHOR: Ok, so Joan and I teach a class in Ojai that has been very successful. And one of our students came, uh, there was a Christmas about four years ago where both her mother and her mother in law, who are back east, fell and had rather severe injuries. So she asked us for, uh, pictures and written explanation of how they could help themselves. And so I will now pass it to Joan.
JOAN: Well we were already a group. I had looked around and found the four septuagenarians who had studied with Katy and had gotten our Restorative Exercise specialization certification and I said, "Hey, you know, maybe we should hang out together and find out what it's doing for us." Because I'm amazed at what it's doing for me. And so we started meeting once a month. We called our group "Soup and Sees" because that's what we ate. Soup and a box of See's chocolate!
CO-AUTHOR: It was the early days!
JOAN: Yeah, we kind of burned out on See's actually. Now.
CO-AUTHOR: Thank goodness!
JOAN: Trying other chocolates. We've not burned out on chocolate, though.
JOAN: So when this student of ours came along and said this, I said, "Hey if we were actually writing another book," We were writing our experiences of Katy and of how your work has changed our lives as we've gotten older. And so we took a break and I said, "Hey, let's just take a couple weeks and we'll whip this thing out for ..."
JOAN: So a year later. But, it bonded us, I guess you'd say that.
CO-AUTHOR: I think so.
JOAN: Anyway, I think, for me, what I've seen is that, like good wine I like to say, I have just been getting better with age. And so I started out when I was 71 and I'll be 79 in May. And, uh, yeah take a look at me up a tree.
JOAN: Somebody asked me, the other day, why. Why would you climb a tree? And I said, "yeah, good question. You know, before Katy I never knew that anybody over 12 climbed a tree." But when she said sure then I said "Well all right. I'm gonna give it a shot." There you have it.
KATY: Well then how did that book turn into this book? I feel like there are some steps missing.
JOAN: Oh, oh well. Then we met with Katy in March of 2014. I like to bring that up.
KATY: Wow you have the date. You're such a lawyer. You're such a great attorney.
JOAN: Yeah, notice it that when I sign your book you put a date on it. You'll always know when you got that signature. And I don't sign my full name, notice that. Even though you may be able to copy it, it won't do you any good.
JOAN: There you have it. Anyway we...
KATY: So many tips in this book! Free legal advice!
JOAN: So anyway we asked Katy, we submitted it to her and we said, "Hey we would like to do this for this friend of ours" and Katy basically came back with a really lengthy email...
KATY: Doesn't sound like me.
JOAN: which is unusual. I framed it. It's dated. And she said, "Well, first of all, you can't do this." And we thought "well shoot we thought we could." But then she made us a counter-offer where she would write the substantive portion. And we said, "Well we wanted to keep it really short." And she said, "Well don't you think this would be better if they had something substantive to base these exercise on." And we said, "As a matter of fact we do." So we worked with her and it's been a blast.
KATY: Well my editor, she sent a note, because I pitched it to her it was on a phone call because I was thinking I had written a couple other pieces already for goldener populations, for other publications that maybe no one else would have even seen. Private publications about the driving and I did a big research project when I was in graduate school on exercise adherence for this particular population that was just sitting there. I had been working on it for 10 years. But I had still pitched this to the editor. It would be a notebook. Because I still didn't imagine it...what they had sent me was more...
KATY: Yeah it was a booklet and I think booklet was the actual word I used. So maybe something spiral bound, 30-40 pages. This is, I think, the longest book to date with the exception of the compilation of 5 years of blog posts it's the longest one.
DANI: It's got big type.
KATY: It does. It's got big type but when it was accidentally laid down with smaller type it wasn't that much... it's a substantial book. And, uh, that's what it's become. And from them pitching it, it coming about was about 2 and a half years, maybe more.
KATY: Books take a lot of time. And there's been a couple other books that have come out in the meantime. And it's a small publishing house with one staff, right? So there's not a lot to do multiple projects at once. So, anyway... this was actually the perfect time for it. And it is, to date, looking like it's going to be maybe the most popular or far-reaching book. Because I used to think that...
KATY: Yeah. Right? ... I used to think that if you were in a ... if you had a particular level of we'll say fitness or physical competency that you could teach everyone who fell below it. But really you can teach best the levels of fitness that you yourself have worked through. And so this book, it's reaching an area that very few people have ever trained through. So that means that there's a huge bulk of the population that's never had a fitness book or a movement book written for them by them, essentially. So it's going to be very exciting to see what's happening. It's been the first of our books, I don't know if I told you, or anyone told you that, has been bought by WalMart.
GROUP: Wow. Really?
KATY: Yeah. Which means, you know, which means it's a book that they think people, as they walk by, will be massive appeal. Yeah. Whoever said that.
Music transition back to the studio recording.
DANI: You really deal with a lot of attitude and perception early on in the book which I think is important too.
KATY: Well, and I do so because ... hold that thought for a second. So like the rest of this book, that's my point, but then it's easy to say that when you're forty, right, like, "Hey, everyone out there who's 70. Just try it and trust me." It's... I say that all the time. And you should. But I felt like, the reason that I'm saying it is that I've worked with lots of people. It's not just, like, my idea. I've worked with lots of people who have made, you know, huge transitions, huge improvements in their ability to move through working specifically on how they move, how much they move. And my co-authors are people that I have worked with for almost 10 years.
KATY: I mean they came in in their late 60s and early 70s and they are telling you how they are ten years later, right? They have aged 10 years chronologically and all of them move better than they did when they came in 10 years ago. Which means like their movement has increased with their chronological age. Which kind of shatters that perception that we have that there's an inevitable decline.
KATY: So how the book came about is they all became movement teachers themselves of a lot of the exercises, they all went through our certification program that we had at that time and they started working with other people with, like, their peers...
KATY: coaching them through these types of things and they...
DANI: Pardon me. All four of them were certified?
DANI: That's cool.
KATY: Yeah, so they've studied this stuff in depth. You know, they're not like the five or ten exercises, they're like, "We wanna learn it all. We want to learn how it works." And they've radically changed their lives.
Music transition back to The Alignment B.E.A.C.H. book launch.
CO-AUTHOR: I was standing here listening to all the conversation and what kept going through my mind was ten, eleven years ago when I first was pushed into Katy's door.
KATY: Who pushed you?
CO-AUTHOR: Delia. Where are you Delia?
KATY: Where's Delia?
CO-AUTHOR: I'd always loved exercise. Swimming, walking, hiking, all those sports. Tennis, you name it, I loved it. And then when I injured myself doing yoga, it spread from one knee to the other knee and it spread to the neck and so for 10 years before I met Katy I'd lived with trying to deal with a lot of pain and to keep it at bay. And I continued to use yoga. I continued to use Tai Chi. I was a movement freak. And it just only kept it for that period. I could never get on top of it. And after I got pushed into Katy's office and I had a wonderful chiropractor that changed. It's an amazing... and I was just sitting here thinking, what changed for me, I was watching you all sitting on the floor. All comfortable and for me personally, I never knew the different way I could hold my body standing or sitting and it would make such a difference in my health. Which I never knew either, in addition to pain. And it's so simple. We wrote a book and yet it's really about how we hold our bodies. That's all I have to say.
SHELAH: I'm Shelah. And when we started on this book we were working on our memoirs which I'm not a good one. I can't spell so I don't write that well. Um, they said, "Let's do an exercise book" and I said, "Woah, yeah I can do that. I'm a graphic designer. Yay." So I got really excited and we took a lot of pictures and we made illustrations and everything and that was really fun. And Katy, I want to tell you, you have the best publishing staff ever. I love Penelope and Stephanie. They have been so kind. It was a pleasure to work with people in Canada.
SHELAH: Yeah, it was great. And I've been taking classes with Katy since I was 67 or 8 and I retired from a job as a graphic desire, sitting on my butt all the time. And it made a tremendous difference and I've just hung with it all this time. And it's been great.
Music transition back to the studio.
KATY: It's one thing for me to make the recommendations but then they within that peer group would say, "Here are, like, the four or five other things that we actually needed to add to be successful." So they had valuable insight being of a particular movement culture which is, like, here were the things in my head that would maybe limit me from doing it so we added this. So we kind of blended it and it just grew and grew. It grew into maybe one of my longer movement books.
KATY: And so the fact that it started off as this tiny booklet and now has been, it's a very robust movement guide.
DANI: It is.
KATY: As well as their stories. Right?
KATY: And so that's what it is. It's it, would you even call it an exercise book or would you call it...
KATY: ...like a movement memoir almost?
DANI: It's almost like a text or a manual. What they add to it is so interesting and their stories were probably one of my favorite parts but I really like the layout of it too.
DANI: Like the way you've ordered it. It think...
KATY: It's like "Chicken Soup for the Soul."
DANI: Well yeah it's almost like your most friendly for everybody book. Even though it's dynamic aging. I really think I could hand that to anybody and they would be totally not intimidated by it and they would get a lot from it.
KATY: It's definitely a book geared towards someone new to movement. Like I feel like there's a group of people who would say, "Well I need things, you know, bigger or faster." But I think that there is often missing, I think that there are, like fitness books or exercise books are written for people who are already exercising who might want to try a new program. I tried to gear this book towards someone with no movement background at all. Like, you are starting from scratch. Here's things that are highly effective yet very gentle so you, it's not for people who are older or goldener, if you will. So to go back to that question about one of the reasons we talk about perceptions so early on is because when they handed me this notebook or when we were working on the book the co-authors were like, "We don't like the word old or senior" or these like negative words...
DANI: I know, you threw geriatric in there. It's like that's a terrible word.
KATY; Well the word is how you feel about it.
DANI: Well it's never attached to anything great.
KATY: Really? There's no geriatric puppies or anything? Geriatric pizza? So yes but it's just that, right? And so, there's a lot of research on words and motivation for exercise and, I mean even the cover. Even to do the cover of this book. As we were looking through images of, let's look at other fitness books or exercise books written particularly for this specific demographic and it was like, dated. They all looked like, they all had hand weights, like one pound hand weights. It wasn't the motivation of like "no you can be like this fluid, dynamic, gazelle"
KATY: That's not, doesn't have to be linked to age 35
KATY: That can go for any age. It can go from 0 to 99. And so we just shot them for the cover because....
DANI; Yeah and they proved that in all their stories. I mean for those of us that grew up in the era of the sit and be fit lady as far as exercise for anybody over 40 it was, they really give evidence of how you can move better and any age.
Music transition to The Alignment B.E.A.C.H. book launch
AUDIENCE: I'd like to know what you'd recommend for easy ways to keep your upper body strength.
DANI: The question is what do we recommend...
KATY: Well how about what's just your favorite way of keeping your upper body, all the different points that you're thinking about...are you thinking for tricks or?
AUDIENCE: Just something that's easy, that's available or should we erect something to hang from in our backyard or?
KATY: Oh yeah. So what's your one favorite upper body alignment tip if you will.
CO-AUTHOR: Mine is, get your shoulders down and your ribs down. I do it a hundred thousand times a day.
KATY: Shoulders down, ribs down. We can all do it right now. Thank you. OK.
JOYCE: I guess my favorite one is, um, hanging from a bar in my closet. Which I haven't been doing, I was employed for 11 months and I gave that up. And I'm looking forward to getting back to it. But I did it for about 8, 9 years. And then I'd go to the parks and hang from bars there.
KATY: Did it freak anyone out that they saw you hanging from the bars?
JOYCE: Did they do what?
KATY: When they saw you hanging from the bars?
JOYCE: Or trees?
KATY: They didn't give any commentary?
JOYCE: Not much. No.
KATY: I love that. That's great.
SHELAH: The kids always ask me "What are you doing?"
CO-AUTHOR: For me, I live on a ranch and I have a lot of live oak trees and so after meeting Katy and hearing it was ok to climb a tree, I started looking for trees that I could reach and that I could climb up. And so for me, that has worked really, really well. The ability to, you know, hold on and climb up the trunk of a tree and wrap my legs around it. But not everybody has a tree and so, the bar, like Joyce was mentioning. I have that over my doorway at home and it has three different ways that I can hold it so that I can work, you know, all of that. But also things like the plank. You know, anything that uses... also at night just before going to bed I'm in the kitchen getting water and I have two counters that are the same height. And so I put a hand on each side and then see if I can lift my body off the floor. So that builds upper body strength for me.
CO-AUTHOR: Ok, so I think my favorite, I think I do a lot of things that strengthen my upper body. I do enjoy hanging and it's not a fancy apparatus, it's just a plumbers pipe that is screwed up on a beam in my house, just outside my house, actually. But I do hang every day and I can now get maybe this much lift when I hang, you know.
CO-AUTHOR: I love that inch and a half. But I also on a daily basis am carrying buckets of water, maybe in both hands. I'm doing a whole lot of yard work and it's all upper body. I put in a little orchard that required a lot of heavy digging and I think that's how I most enjoy getting my exercise.
Music transition to studio
KATY: They're sharing specifically, like, I'm working my way through hiking all of the national forests. And I did some barefoot. And I climbed trees. You know, it's like, it's not that kind of watered down, "make sure you walk one mile a day" you know. It's really three dimensional.
KATY: They are offering a three-dimensional movement experience that I have never seen written about in a book to this particular demographic.
DANI: Yeah, and I've only read it once but I just found it very empowering. Not at all pandering, which was wonderful. And the sidebars are probably my favorite.
KATY: What's a sidebar? Which sidebar?
DANI: There's all their little stories and do this and do that.
KATY: Oh yeah.
DANI: I mean, I loved, loved those.
KATY: They're tips?
DANI: Yes Yes.
KATY: "Here's my tip." or "Here's my story." They're great.
DANI: They're awesome. And like I said earlier. I really feel like I can hand it to anybody and they would get something, they would get a lot out of it. Well, ok, you told me how you came to do the book with them and the book starts out with each author contributing their own stories, like, which made me like them all immediately. They were just so frank. There was definitely no sugar coating. They said where they were and where they're at now. But I liked right away, I think it was on page 21, and what's her name, Lara?
KATY: Hold on, let me flip open my physical copy.
DANI: Oh. That must be nice!
KATY: Yeah it's weighty. It's really weighty. Right now, 21. Yes, that is...
DANI: Yes and she's. Well... 21 on my early, early copy. Lara is talking about, you know, how everything's so much how she can, how you can do all this stuff and on steep terrain and everything but she just says, "The biggest reward is finding that aging isn't bad after all. Aging is an opportunity to move, play and expand into new areas." So right there she kind of just sets the, this is where we're at with it. The tone. And I really liked that. I actually liked them all right away after I read their stories. And they're not all, like you said, I wouldn't want to say perfect, but they're just not all "swinging from trees" shape, like, and Shelah talks about going exercising with you and getting to be so much more functional and then hurting herself. But then she talks about the resilience of you're older but having that...where was that quote?
KATY: Well, there was one point, so Shelah, I believe, has a bit of scoliosis, right? So, she, like so many people of any age, are constantly trying to negotiate their physical experience, their shape, with still the need to move. And so we all kind of overshoot sometimes. And we also all undershoot sometimes. So she's, you know, she's exercising regularly and then I think it was she was moving something in her closet and then oops, there goes her back. So then, common is to stop moving altogether to go "look, see, I can't move." And then you stop. But then she goes, like, well, one thing that having become a regular mover allowed her was to start moving gently and to start going, you know, being bedridden for a long period of time, she just kind of started, she adjusted her training to a way where she could keep moving so it wouldn't exacerbate that particular injury. And these are realities.
KATY: These are realities of a physical body that it doesn't... it's going to change abilities throughout your life. That is the reality of it. But alongside that reality is, movement is also still a necessity. So we tend to easily step away from movement because we don't have a very large toolbox of ways to move outside of usually the ways that hurt us, you know? So it's fun to watch them express their experiences, both with the exercisers and being movers.
KATY: Just moving through their regular daily life.
Music transition to The Alignment B.E.A.C.H. book launch
KATY: More questions?
AUDIENCE: I have a question about the starting place. When you think back to when you first started doing this work. Were you intimidated? Were there correctional exercises that seemed easier to approach? My mother in law has some foot issues and knee issues that I know she's bringing a copy back to work. And I think she's eager and I'm very much encouraged with your women that are moving better 10 years later. I want that. But if you're currently facing health issues.
KATY: Who was currently facing a health issue when they came in here?
AUTHORS: All of us.
KATY: They were all pre-surgery, pre-health issues.
AUDIENCE: Let's hear more about that.
SHELAH: I am currently facing a health issue. I have severe scoliosis and it's trapped some nerves in my vertebrae and it's pretty amazing. However, having worked with Katy since I was 67 and now I'm 79, I have some idea what to do for it. I mean, I get other help from other folks, but I have an idea what to do for it. And I think that's the most valuable thing. I don't have to rely on the PT or the doctor. I have an idea what to do for it. And that's the best. Thank you, Katy!
CO-AUTHOR: As you know, we all had injuries and surgeries awaiting, um, other interventions. But the, um, doing Katy's work, I realized and in the beginning, it was so different. When I got thrown in her studio, I knew everything.
KATY: We know it was against your will. We got it! And I was smashed in the door.
CO-AUTHOR: But if you actually get into this you will see that it's opening, like, a whole nother world that doesn't take away the world we live in but there's another world that interfaces and that's what has made the healing for me.
CO-AUTHOR: I can say something if you want, or not.
KATY: Yeah, absolutely. Want more?
CO-AUTHOR: So if, yeah, the question. I had the usual, I was already scheduled for knee surgery and was told I absolutely had to have a replacement because I had a thirteen degree frozen knee and, um, and here's the one that smashed me in the door. Because being a movement therapist I thought I knew it all and I didn't. It was entirely different paradigm. But I want to tell you about this is, Katy said something in a class once that got the whole picture in one short sentence. When I went in I couldn't stand on one, I had poor balance and I couldn't stand on one foot at all and she was doing some intricate things and I said "oh, can I use that wheel" or there was something around in the classroom that I said "I, can I go that to use as my support?" And she said, don't be shocked because she was very truthful and got the whole picture out in one sentence, "Oh, are you training to use a cane?" Now think about that.
KATY: Did I say that?
CO-AUTHOR: You did.
CO-AUTHOR: And being one who really likes truth and have it direct, so my brain really gets it in an instant, I was delighted. So that's why I said, because I've told that story to other people and they're like, "Oh no!" you know. No, I'm very grateful.
CO-AUTHOR: For me it was totally intimidating because I didn't come from a yoga background. I'm the most inflexible person at many levels.
CO-AUTHOR: And I was a weightlifter. I actually taught older adults how to lift weights to maintain their bone density. So when I started with Katy, I was very, you know, "prove it to me." Anyway, what I found was she was so logical. What she taught was so very logical that I could grasp it and so I started. But I was, oh my, so bad at every exercise. You just can't imagine. Because I am so stiff. Even to this day. But, I've improved. It's better than when I started out and where I suspect I was headed, had I not done it. So yeah, it's awesome.
KATY: Well, I apologize for that. I don't remember...
CO-AUTHOR: Don't apologize!
KATY: It must have been the early morning class. The 7am class.
DANI: She knew what you needed to do.
CO-AUTHOR: I loved it. It really caught my attention.
CO-AUTHOR: Sometimes you do that stuff to us. It works!
KATY: You guys can come in. Plenty of space.
DANI: Tons of room right here.
KATY: It's Annie! Hi Annie come in.
ALL: Oh my gosh.
KATY: It's like old home week in here.
DANI: So we had one question here.
AUDIENCE: So to build on to that conversation, so it sounds like each of you went to see her for a particular, you know, "I want to see if I can help something", right? How long did it take that you noticed that help? I mean, whether the scoliosis, or the knee or whatever, you know, when did you say, you know, this is helping?
SHELAH: Um. I would like to clarify something. The scoliosis didn't start... I've had it all my life, obviously, it didn't start until I was 75. And I started with Katy long before that. So that's how I had the knowledge. And when I went into Katy's class, it was obvious. And I'd always been an exerciser. It was obvious to me things were different. And that's the reason I stayed with it. And it takes, it takes a while. For me. Speaking for myself.
CO-AUTHOR: Yeah, I think it's very important.
CO-AUTHOR: I still have to work on keeping my feet pointing straight ahead and my shoulders down and my ribs down, Tim, and
CO-AUTHOR: So, anyway. It just, it takes consciousness and you have to kind of remember what you're doing.
CO-AUTHOR: I knew the first lesson. I didn't have a clue what it was. I just knew something was really different. And bit by bit, I figured out it was the loading of the body. And I'm still learning to do that.
KATY: How long, how long though for your knee...
CO-AUTHOR: To heal?
KATY: How long did it take for your knee to heal or to be able to move like before you were able to do such a good squat or whatever. How many years? I think that's the nature of your question. A lot of people want to know. Yeah, yeah.
CO-AUTHOR: When was I squatting?
KATY: The last six years are a blur.
CO-AUTHOR: A few years ...
CO-AUTHOR: ... before I could squat. But then the body finds other weak points so you lose some of your mobility and then you work on that and then you get it back. It's not a straight line. It's really, for me, you know, up and down. We don't know the stress risers that are gonna go. I did my Achilles tendon. It took me a year to heal that. And I feel that was a stress riser because of the tight muscles my whole life.So when my foot when in the, stumbled, it wasn't because it stumbled, it was because there were already muscles waiting to give that I didn't know about.
JOAN: For me, I'm more of a record keeper as you might have gathered.
JOAN: I can give you the date.
KATY: Can you just read the list?
JOAN: So, more than you ever wanted to know. I suffered from chronic constipation and by the time you get into your 70s it becomes really scary. Because either you're gonna have to be taking something on a regular basis or you're gonna be in a lot of trouble. And within 3 years of starting the program that went away completely. And so I'm almost 8 years into the program.
JOAN: So that was huge. And to this day I think maybe when you talk to the producer the other day I think you said it, I never knew why, what it did.
KATY: Oh yeah.
JOAN: You know, what caused it. But Katy mentioned that it's the moving of my ...
KATY: Well the guy was like, "Really."' He's like... how many years or decades was your constipation. It's on the table now!
JOAN: Well I was 75 when it finally went away.
KATY: Well, when did it start?
JOAN: As a kid!
KATY: So you're talking a lot...50 years.
JOAN: At least.
KATY: And he was like, "so 50 years of constipation by", for me it was probably abdominal release. Abdominal release is a big mobility. And he was like, "it's so.." He could see one small exercise. But I could see 24 hours of upward force for 50 years just not doing that anymore. So it's one exercise, yes, but it's an entire pressure system change. So it's a whole body instantaneous change. So it's just a way of how you quantify things. Like you can quantify things lots of different ways so...
JOAN: So that was really big. The other thing was that I could not walk barefoot. Even on the sand. And I was a big barefoot person. And so, I had to always wear orthotics and so when I started I was, I went to Earth Shoes, the negative heel shoe and was doing the exercises on a regular basis and I would say that within a year I was down to the Vibrams, the minimal shoes and I hiked 3-5 miles a day in the Vibrams over an uneven surface with just a little metatarsal pad. And so that's been huge for me. And I guess the third thing for me is the pelvic prolapse. Now you know everything there is to know about me.
JOAN: What can I tell you?
KATY: Tell us about it, Joan.
JOAN: Nothing is private anymore. I was scheduled for major reconstructive surgery in 2008 and I still haven't had it.
JOAN: I attribute a lot of that to learning how to walk properly through gait classes and basically it's the whole body.
KATY: It is.
Music transition to studio
DANI: Ok, I found the quote. She said, she wrote: "Moving better doesn't automatically mean you don't get injured but it makes you more resilient if you do." I think everybody at every age needs to know that.
DANI: Very helpful. What else did I ... I loved, I have so many crazy mish-mashed notes about it.
KATY: You love the sidebars.
DANI: I know, I love the sidebars. Is that when they had came to you with the booklet did they have those tips and sidebars or was that kind of like collaboration.
KATY: No, they had, I mean they really just had ten of my exercise just bulleted. So there wasn't their story but when I, as soon as I got it I was realizing, "oh, you know what's valuable here is actually their story."
KATY: And so I can design, I can design a programming and write the exercises and kind of the science behind the exercises and then gear that level of technicality to my audience. Like that's what I do is, you know, I'm not going to write about mechanotransduction and super technical things or telomeres or, you know, I choose how technical to get. Because if you go too technical it goes, it can just kind of overshoot and then if you go, if you offer not enough detail there's not enough context for why we would be doing these things. So I said, "I can handle all of this but here's what I want. What are your, like, what's your favorite..." It's a writing assignment. They had a year of writing exercises. It's like, "What's your favorite exercise and why?"
DANI: Oh cool.
KATY: And after you get a bunch of that information then, you know, editors are really great at going through and going, "I'm motivated by this piece. This is a beautiful illustration of this point." So then they were able to quilt, almost, their stories with the information and then, of course, editors are good at knowing where to put them in. You know, I'm talking about pelvic list, blah blah, balance, lateral hip muscle. But then you go, you know, Sheila's story going, "Wow, I've traveled the world and I've never been as confident as I was after I learned the pelvic list because I could negotiate cobblestones more easily." So that's what makes a book readable is when someone knows that after being given kind of a technical example of something that you have a story to go with it that allows you to have an emotion attached to it almost.
DANI: Well they were well placed for that. The editor did a great job. Because that, everything was exactly where you'd want it to be.
KATY: So am I right in saying you like the sidebars?
DANI: I like the side... I loved them. I loved them. I also liked Joan's butt story.
KATY: She's gonna be so happy about that.
DANI: I know. I'm reading this and I'm thinking, "Ok, how old is this woman?" She was the oldest?
KATY: She's 79. No Joyce is the oldest, she's 80.
DANI: Ok, yeah, 79 and she's building a butt. I just thought this was such a wonderful illustration of how it's never too late to improve. We talked about how the ship leaves the harbor a million times a day and each of those times you have the option to change or improve and I mean...
KATY: Or build a butt.
DANI: You could build a butt whenever and I just, yeah, that was awesome. Kudos to her for throwing that one out there.
KATY: That's right. We were gonna use a picture of her butt on the cover but we decided not to...
DANI: Maybe the second printing. Who knows?
DANI: Yeah, and you give nice little nods to joint replacements because that is a reality and not just with people who are goldeners.
KATY: Nope. Not anymore.
DANI: Did you just say something the other day like, Lew Hamilton and Gabby Reese?
KATY: No. They're young, fit, athletes.
DANI: Right. But.
KATY: A lot of people have them.
DANI: That was cool that you put that in there so anybody that would be interested in that book that has joint replacements they would... what do you call it, not the accommodation...sorry...
DANI: Modifications, thank you. That's what I get for my pluggy cold head. You talked about the fear of falling.
DANI: And there was a little sidebar about Elliot Royce which was kind of cool. It was kind of like Judo? I think. Did you find him or was that somebody that they had heard about.
KATY: No that was my addition.
KATY: So, any ... I wrote a lot of sidebars too. But
DANI: I still like them.
KATY: And that was a sidebar. Thanks. You know I had done a big research paper when I was in graduate school on, one of the reasons I thought I would do this book is because I had done a lot of research on this particular population in graduate school. And it was, I mean I wrote a few papers on it, you know, within my university about strategies, like success strategies. Movement is a culture. Exercise is a culture. And so, the culture that most people are familiar with is fitness gym culture but the range of people using that particular outlet is pretty narrow, pretty small as far as age goes. Like, you don't see equal amounts of 72-year-olds in gyms as you would see 27-year-olds, right? So there's reasons for that. And I was interested in those reasons. So there was that and then also the fear of falling was a big research section for me when I was in graduate school. Because there are biomechanical changes. When you are afraid of falling... It's kind of interesting. They're trying to figure out how falls happen so there's an interesting bit...
DANI: This was very fascinating, this part. Tell us.
KATY: Well there's slipping and tripping, right? So there's two kind of ways of falling. They're two different things. But one of the strategies for mitigating a fall, and if you want to embody it just go walking where you know it's slippery and you'll see the natural response of your body to slightly bend your knees. Put your hands out to the side, tuck your tailbone a little bit and shuffle. You know, not fully pick up. Not doing your normal push off stride. That goes away.But what they found was people were doing that not on ice and that when they were interviewing people trying to quantify their fear of falling they noticed that. And then were they afraid of falling because they had already falled. Falled? Wow!
KATY: Oh my gosh. And I write books. Not because they had already fallen.
DANI: Thank God for editors!
KATY: Did I tell you I've walked 41 miles in the last two days? I'm kind of beat.
DANI: I thought it was more than that.
KATY: It was like 46. It was 46.
DANI: Are you tired?
KATY: I am very much so. I falled asleep.
DANII: Well...go ahead and told your story.
KATY: That people who hadn't actually fallen but were afraid of falling had modified their gait to the gait that actually increases the risk of falling.
KATY: That once you're shuffling along that's what often precedes a fall. But you're not clearing anything. You're not able to step over things. And that's ok when you're in your house and you remove all of the obstacles in your house or you've memorized, you know, the same walking paths in your house but then you go to your friend's house or you got shopping and left something out or there was a crack in the ground or someone was standing in the way that you normally go and you walk around them and you have a new environment that you are, you've deconditioned yourself to responding to. So that, that fear is itself a risk factor for falling. So then we go, "ok, where does - why are people afraid of falling?" And obviously because of the injuries. But then I was interested in why...there are things you can do, like physical strength. Joint mobility. Muscle mass, alignment or posture, the shape of your body as you take to walking...those are the things that can actually mitigate the fall, not the actual just shuffling along so that you never trip over anything. So I was just... thought it was important to kind of note if you're worried about falling, that what you can do is start training yourself so that you're more physically robust to handle it and then thus that fear can dissipate and both of those things will eek yourself out of that kind of shuffling gait that's often associated with aging. Right? When we see people who have that particular gait, like, oh that's like the, if you're playing charades,
KATY: That's how you would mime the old person crossing the street but it's just this natural response to the fear that you might fall.
DANI: Wow. Yeah, I found that very fascinating. How old is Joyce again?
KATY: Joyce is 80.
DANI: Ok, for those of you listening I want to read this to you. Joyce says: "Within a few years of starting to work with Katy, I once again was able to climb ladders and step ladders without fear. It was a marvelous feeling of personal power that I'm grateful for. In the past few years, I have realized that once again I can climb stairs, go down stairs, climb mountains, go down mountains, skip, hop, leap, for fun and also when I need to. I can squat, sit on the floor with comfort, sleep on the floor with comfort, kneel, hang from trees, swing on bars." I mean that's awesome. Like this is a real...
KATY: Joyce is the bomb.
DANI: This is a real person, everybody. And it just goes to, I sound like my mom, it goes to show ya that it is... you can do this.
KATY: Yeah, she's great.
DANI: Yeah. I love it.
KATY: She's great.
KATY: You can. I mean that's why they're co-authors, right?
DANI: It's crazy. Right.
DANI: And I always say I move better at 46 than I did at 25 and it's the truth and these gals really, what you've done with them, it's that much more affirming. You know. Keep on keepin' on.
KATY: I struggled to walk my 30 miles last year because of ankle an ankle injury. I did it but it was, you know, I was really pushing it that last little bit and I was like, looking like, ok, what gave me trouble and in this year I was able to walk 40 plus miles and that didn't come up this year.
DANI: That's cool.
KATY: I was able to go farther, longer, less pain, older. And I think that that understanding that we are not dealing with age-related decline. We are dealing with a sedentary culture. Two different things. And if we can change that message and inform, I would say a lot of people who feel that they're too far past where they can make an improvement. Like we do a lot of work trying to create a movement culture regular daily movement, not only exercise. And I think for a lot of people their belief is that message isn't for them. Because alongside that they have a, "Oh no you decline as you get older."
KATY: "Everyone knows that. It's all downhill. It's over the hill". It's black and white party favors. But it's like, what age does that happen? Because right now we've got four people, and many many others...
KATY: that are trending upward and any physical task you could have given them, based on the physical inputs that you put in. So, I think that that's, I mean as a... as, you know, thinking about the science of movement as an academic perspective, from a science perspective, I think that this is very important. Of course, I think that their stories and the book is really wonderful and a helpful tool, but I am really interested in this larger phenomenon of how people are understanding movement and how that affects us culturally. You know, how that keeps us a sedentary culture.
DANI: Yeah, well hopefully this will change a little bit of that direction of that.
KATY: Sure. Well even if it only changes the person, the reading it. Then that's fine. You've changed the world.
Music transition to The Alignment B.E.A.C.H. book launch.
AUDIENCE: I'm asking this for my 84-year-old whose balance is off...
AUDIENCE: ... and she has been very not active enough and that's why this will be an inspiration to her.
KATY: Yeah. Well, the whole book is to exercise. I mean what.. I mean balance is.. I mean to balance not to exercise. It's the strength of your feet. It's the strength of your hips. It's how frequently you get up and expose your body to gravity. So. Did you get her a book?
KATY: It will all walk her through that. But just, what would be, like what's your favorite balance exercise. Like what's the exercise that you pull out - or how do you practice balance. How do you challenge your balance?
CO-AUTHOR: All the time.
KATY: Well how?
CO-AUTHOR: Getting up off the floor and being able to sustain my weight without coming out balance.
KATY: Well yes if it's in your life but if you want to practice it. So if you want to practice it. Like for me, I'll do this, I'll talk a lot just on one foot. Do you have a little thing that you do? Tell us.
CO-AUTHOR: Pelvic listing. All the time. I have a standing work station in my office and as I'm there I will pelvic list one side and then pelvic list on the other side. And then I have one of those squishy things...
CO-AUTHOR: Yeah. So I'll do it on that. Then I'll do it on a block. Then on a half dome. So different, uh, different surfaces. And then the bosu.
CO-AUTHOR: The bosu is awesome. Totally awesome.
CO-AUTHOR: Lines become different because you can practice pelvic list in any line. Grocery, bank, waiting for a signal. That was huge change for me in getting the strength.
KATY: Waiting for a signal on foot.
KATY: I love that. Because my instinct was like, "How is she listing in the car?" Because she's walking through her town. That's great.
(laughter and chatter)
CO-AUTHOR: And for me it's ditto. It's waiting for lights. It's...
KATY: The list, pelvic list is the money. Yeah.
Music transition to the studio.
DANI: Chapter four was the walking chapter. And I don't know why but it was my favorite.
KATY: That makes sense.
DANI: I felt it was...does it. I don't know. I just felt like it was the most comprehensive. If I could get...at first I was like if I could get a goldener to just read one chapter that would be it but now it's like if I could get anybody to read one chapter...it's just very comprehensive. Because it just starts with the mechanics, it's not overwhelming and then adds in all the different vitamins like vitamin texture, vitamin community and why...how that all affects someone. And then the practice and variations. You could keep busy with that walking chapter for a long time, I think, and really build a lot just out of that one chapter. Well done, you. I like the walking chapter. And not just because I like walking.
KATY: Dani approved!
DANI: Yes, sidebar, Dani. Walking, Dani. It's all good. Yeah. And then it was all so good. Do you want to keep talking about it? Like the fit to drive. That also... Ok, so there's a chapter in the book called "Fit To Drive" and I thought the addition of that was very thoughtful because it was about ways that you can condition yourself so that driving isn't a scary or prohibited thing.
KATY: Well again, that came from, so when I thought I would do this book, now keep in mind, you know, you always harp on me for writing books when I say that I wouldn't write books. A lot of the content that's in this book I had already written, well done the research for, like the bulk of the work was already there. It needed lots of TLC, but the big part was there including "Fit to Drive" was a piece for personal trainers that I wrote a few years ago for IDEA. Which is the kind of the governing board of health and fitness...
KATY: So it was just something that and like, trying to help trainers where like a lot of your clients, when we talk about what's a functional exercise, we don't think of driving as a physical thing. Right? Driving is actually often touted as the thing that you do when you're not exercising.
KATY: That all being said, there are lots of movements that go into driving and when you are unable to do them, you are no longer able to drive safely. And I just thought, it's, you know, there's are art of trying to motivate people or to make movement pertinent to their life. We wouldn't think, I mean I would say that a lot of people... My father's 90... I work with and am around septuagenarian, octogenarians, and nonagenarians every day. I am around this population of people and have always been drawn, a lot of the work, again that I did...
KATY: ... as far as movement training and stuff, I kind of gravitated towards that. That particular population. I just enjoy ... I enjoy the wisdom. And I found that people were really motivated to fix their hips and knees because they could get that fixed at the doctor's office, right? They don't really see how that related to movement. But I was like, "did you know that when it comes time, when other people can weigh in on whether or not you get to keep your driver's license that there's a mobility test at the end of that?" And it was like, shock. They were like, "What do you mean?" It's like, "Yeah. That is an assessment to make sure that someone is mobile enough to drive because you have to have very quick responses to drive."
KATY: You have to be able to move your foot from one side to the other and know how hard you're pushing it or not pushing the pedals. And you have to be able to look behind you and so I was able to create like these mini mobility... So instead of doing chair fitness, so just non-purpose move because you're supposed to, because it's healthy. Which is very easy for a population, like, to talk about optimal wellness works for a very particular culture. It is not a human interest. It is a
DANI: Yeah. That's a good point.
KATY: It is a particular culture. Right? So we're trying to sell movement to the, to one culture of people that is not inclusive for most of the people that you're trying, that you're dealing with on a regular basis. And I would be like, "All right. This is the driving workout. All right. Hands on the wheel. All right back up. Oh, you can't see over your shoulder? Oh, all right, so let's do..." and I would just was able to put that in and it now had a purpose. And then any exercise that they learned in that class automatically had - they had a space - they drove there. They were gonna drive home.
KATY: As soon as they got in, they could relate those movements, those exercises back to this thing that they were doing. And so they doubled or tripled the number of times that they were doing them. So, I've - that's how I always teach, that's how I think about movement. But I put that chapter in because I thought, "We need this." Right? We're talking about functional exercise. This is a functional exercise.
Music transition to The Alignment B.E.A.C.H. book launch
AUDIENCE: I like to hike at national parks and I take my walking sticks.
AUDIENCE: I just feel more secure, comfortable, stable because my knees sometimes are a little more tweaky or when rocks, crossing streams and all that. Do you think eventually ... am I training my body....
KATY: I'm smiling, right? I see a lot... sticks. I understand the sticks ... and I have friends who are through hikers. So the idea of the sticks, like sticks I feel go really well with through hiking...meaning 20-30 miles a day. Because what a stick allows you to do is 1) it increases your base of support so it reduces your body's need to do it's own work to stabilize itself. That was nice... and the other thing that it does is that it allows you to kind of use your arms as legs, right? It allows you to share the work. If you're gonna be on paths, like we've gone hiking where it's not so perfectly carved out and a lot of times, you know, you're actually on your hands to stabilize you a little bit. Like you go up on all fours but I see people come through and now I see 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds hiking 5-mile hikes, 3-mile hikes with their boots, and their poles and what they're doing is they are experiencing a supported, more stable walk. Right? That's the benefit. The adaptation, I won't even say that it's not the benefit but the adaptation is, your body is less able to do that without the sticks. So no sticks, you don't have that same level of support. So you train towards needing something outside of your body to stabilize you. That then puts you at risk anytime you don't have those sticks. So... the trans... if you're on them and you already have mileage then the plan would be, can you do portions of it without? If you're doing short hikes, can you go without? Maybe bring them for you because you might realize "Wow, I, my legs weren't strong enough to take me all the way and my arms were part of it." And then you just decrease the frequency of them.
AUDIENCE: Well mostly it was mostly more stability. We hiked in Zion National Park and the Virgin River and the water was like cut through there and
AUDIENCE: there were big rocks and I used the sticks to...
KATY: Yeah. Well and river crossings. In river crossings. Sure, sticks are fine. That kind of stuff, those scenarios, when you're doing the very rare thing of putting on 40 extra pounds on your back that you don't train with all the time. But I've seen them used really in walks in the park. For daily walks. So I think that you just, you know, it's not about if it's right or wrong, it's just more like, what's the physiological adaptations to using them. That's really all I have comment on.
Music transition to the studio.
DANI: You said in the chapter about reaching, carrying, lifting and other functional movement that "alongside walking, though, are other whole body motions we can call on each day: getting up, getting down, carrying, lifting, reaching, taking the stairs, and touching your toes. These activities open up not only our knees, hips, and shoulders, but also the experiences of it." I love that. So true. So true. Ahh. And in the "Movement is Part of Life" chapter, there is a little story about Laura and I'm not gonna read the whole thing. Basically, she just talks about what happens on a daily basis. She carries out her wet wash and she has 7 rain barrels and then she distributes, uses her body to distribute that water on her land where it's needed. She catches the buckets of water in her shower when the cold water is running before it gets warm enough for the shower, and then she uses that to rinse her dirty dishes. Ok, how old is Laura?
KATY: 70 somewhere.
DANI: Ok 70 ...
DANI: So she does that. And then the water she uses in food prep, which has vitamins in it, she carries it around in the buckets to plant - to the plantings in her yard. Ok. She's like hauling all this water all day long and when I read that, I could hear somebody saying, like, and I hear this at home a lot, "Yeah, who would want to do that?" Like she's doing all this stuff and the first thought somebody would have is "Who would want to do that?" But I looked at that and thought "Wow, look how she can do all that." Because it's not just, like it's her choice to do that. But she can. And that's the cool part to me.
KATY: Well that's right. I mean. In the end, I think we touched on this a couple episodes ago...
KATY: She's an environmentalist, right? For her to be able to take action means she has to literally take action.
KATY: If she's not, hold on a second. I've go, like, my nose full of snot. It's so gross. Hold on, I'll be right back.
DANI: (sings) Her nose is full of snot. She left the room to blow it. Her nose is full of snot, oh baby don't you know it. Blow blow blow. And maybe you should Neti. Come on blow your nose your snotty little Betty. Sounds like she's really rippen the kleenexes out of the box too.
KATY: It's like my brain just dumped a huge wad of snot. Like I just discharged. So what Lara's doing...
DANI: She's an environmental...
KATY: Yeah, Lara is an environmentalist so she is looking for ways to conserve energy by using her own body by saving her water. Her ideals by which she lives her life are made more possible by her physicality, right? And so these are the things that she wishes to be able to do. She doesn't necessarily wish to be able to do athletic endeavors. Like she wants to be physical to execute her life in the way that she chooses, which is a luxury that most of us listening to this have. So she's just chosen to take the physical steps to make her body that robust.
DANI: That's so cool.
KATY: Well and that's why it's about your life.
DANI: She has her PMS, her personal mission statement.
DANI: And she has the ability to execute it and that's so cool.
KATY: Well she sees how movement relates to it. I would say that part of the personal mission statement, that process, is to help you see how movement relates...how your movement relates to the things that you would like to do with your life. Right now I don't know if that's apparent. We don't necessarily see the movement component that ends up accomplishing, you know, maybe more of the goals and so we struggle trying to fit it all in. So she found a way to embody her own value system. Right? She's embodying her own system.
DANI: Absolutely. That was cool.
KATY: They're all great.
Music transition to The Alignment B.E.A.C.H. book launch.
DANI: I was wondering, Joan, if you would share the story that we got interrupted with when we were talking in the office. You were talking to me about your conscious decision about aging. Do you remember that?
DANI: Would you share that story because, well, one we got interrupted but it was great. Very inspiring. Do you mind?
JOAN: No. If I can remember. By the way, these exercises are all great for your memory. Um.
JOAN: Well you don't care anymore. That's what's great about it. When I, as I was getting older I kept looking for role models older than I am. And what I saw was that society kind of imposes upon us how we should look at aging. So the fact that we, some of us choose to color our hair when it starts to gray. The fact that ... a variety of things and I thought, you know, I've never aged before so I'm not going to do anything. I'm just gonna watch and see what happens. And so. It's been interesting.
JOAN: You're quick let me tell you. But I wanted a role model. When I was pretty close to 60 I looked around for a role model and I asked friends, could you show me somebody who's really healthy at 60 because that really seemed pretty old to me. Not so much anymore. Ah, anyway, so I was I was introduced to a lady, she was working at a gym and she was, oh my gosh, I mean I was sick already when I looked at her because she was just so trim and buff and oh my gosh. It was incredible. And then I learned that she'd never had any children. So it was, you know, it wasn't my model of what my life was going to look like since I've had three. And not that that makes a particular difference. But it does. It still does. There are certain patterns. Sheila and I talked about carrying kids on a hip. And you don't realize that you carry your kid on the same hip all the time. But anyway, the whole thing about aging, I think, is, well, I'm always looking for someone older than I am for a role model. And what I'm realizing is that we can do it ourselves. We can... yeah. This has worked. And that's why we originally got together to share this information was the fact that for each one of us, in our own way, working Katy's work has made a difference in our lives and it's been an upwards spiral. Is that what you?
DANI: It is. And I think the whole thing about that is that y'all just became role models.
KATY: You're the role models now.
DANI: And I think that's pretty amazing.
KATY: Yeah. Thank you!
KATY: Well, we've got a lot of books still to sign so...
DANI: Yeah, thank you so much for being a part of this. It's been great.
DANI: Yeah, sign books and ...
Music transition to studio.
DANI: So at the end there's all these little, like, blurbs about getting movement, moving more in your daily life. Like, change your closet, which I think every movement book should have that. No matter who writes it. And rethink your furniture and make your kitchen more movement rich - all that stuff. Then you have a really nice flow at the end. Like a movement flow.
DANI: I was gonna ask, are you gonna do a DVD of that eventually?
KATY: I doubt it.
DANI: I think you should.
KATY: I feel like, I feel like I've put so much out there, I mean. I just don't know if I want to make any more.
DANI: I know. I'm just thinking of people going through their book and doing this. Just the practicality of it. I don't know. I think it would be a good idea. Not like you don't have a shortage of things to do.
KATY: Yeah. I think there's some people who follow, like, all these exercises are already in existing places.
KATY: Right there's nothing that's not here.
DANI: But just not the flow, you know.
DANI: I don't know. No pressure or anything.
KATY: Have you done the movement multivitamin and those two flows there?
DANI: Yes, yes.
KATY: So there's two flows there.
DANI: I suppose that could be, yeah.
KATY: I would say that, I mean, this exact routine, I mean, there could be hundreds and hundreds of routines.
DANI: That's true.
KATY: Yeah. You can teach the flow in your class.
DANI: Ok. Well, I look forward to that. Because I have ...
KATY: Dynamic Book club.
DANI: ... a lot of goldeners I like to teach as well and I think this is really gonna be huge. Well, I really look forward to my hard copy of the book and it is awesome. It really is.
KATY: We'll get you a signed copy there.
DANI: Well I'll schlep it back and they can sign it. Maybe you can sign it too. I don't know.
DANI: All right. Well, I think we're done.
KATY: All right. For more information, links, and online exercise classes you can find me at NutritiousMovement.com and you can find Dani Hemmat, more from Dani Hemmat. I don't know if Dani actually lives at her website but if she does, it's Move your better...
DANI: Well now I have to move! (laughs.)
KATY: That's right. You can find more from Dani Hemmat at MoveYourBodyBetter.com. See ya later.
VOICE OVER: Hopefully you find the general information in this podcast informative and helpful. But it is not intended to replace medical advice and should not be used as such.