Whole Body Barefoot, Podcast Ep. 18

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DANI: Hey, there, it’s Dani and Katy, and today Katy’s going to be telling us all about her latest – and fourth – book, Whole Body Barefoot, which I’m pretty sure that the whole world’s been waiting for, even if the whole world doesn’t realize it yet. They’ll know soon enough: trust me. So this show we’re going to discuss who the book is for, why you wrote it, Katy, and how it’s kind of laid out, because that was one of my favorite parts is just how it’s set up for the reader. And then hopefully you’ll share a nice foot exercise from the book with us?

KATY: I can do that.

DANI: Awesome! And we’ll talk about why this book matters to the whole body, and how you should use it. Whole Body Barefoot just came out. Is it out-out? Like, I have a copy –

KATY: You have an advance copy.

DANI: Yeah, but I also have the copy that I bought when you did –

KATY: You have a pre-sale copy, so –

DANI: A pre-sale copy. Okay.

KATY: The actual publication date is April 1st, so I don’t know when this show will actually go up. It might actually be just as this show is coming out, and that means that’s when you’ll find it in – like, Amazon will be shipping it, it’ll be in your local bookstore. I just got a note from the distributor that they sent out copies out to almost every single Barnes and Noble ordered a few copies. So that’s huge.

DANI: Wow!

KATY: Yeah, it’s awesome.

DANI: Wow.

KATY: Yeah, it’s really great. So April 1st.

DANI: That’s good to know. It’s, I think, your best book. You just keep getting better and better, which is –

KATY: Aw, thank you.

DANI: But that’s good. That’s what you want to do. So it’s typical Katy Bowman funny, just full of practical knowledge. My favorite part – it is concise. This little sucker is 137 pages.

KATY: Yeah.

DANI: And that’s including, like, the appendix and the resources. The resource section is out of this world. But you didn’t start out to write a book-book.

KATY: No, I mean I’d already written a book on feet and shoes, and then I wrote Move Your DNA and then I alluded to this original foot book in Move Your DNA and then added all these kind of other ideas that weren’t in Every Woman’s Guide to Foot Pain Relief. Really about texture and about varied terrain. Instead of just saying, ‘natural terrain,’ I kind of put it into a broad category in my first book. I kind of teased it out a little bit in Move Your DNA but I sat down to write just an e-book; it was just going to be like a 50 page book on, on really answering a lot of the questions that I had received since the foot book came out in 2011. So that’s been 4 years. So there was just maybe 20 frequently asked questions that I was answering over and over again, and I thought, okay, I can write this little supplement book. So I thought about it really as a bonus chapter to Move Your DNA when I sat down to write it. A little e-book that I would just put out on my website or something. But as I wrote it, I realized, like, well, I can add this – because I’m always holding back information. I’m trying to write a book that doesn’t overwhelm everybody because you’re always getting 2% of the full picture, and that’s even in presenting big-picture ideas. I’m choosing to leave off different details, different points because the book can’t be endlessly long. There are lots of rules with publication – and cost, do you really want to buy a $75 book on feet? No. And so anyway, it turned into about 130 or 40 pages, and I added lots of different things. Like, I added things like toe walking in kids, and that latest research, and W-sitting, and turnout. You know, we talk a little general about getting your feet pointing straight ahead, but why are your feet the way that they are now? It’s more than just one way your turnout can be created. So I just went into a lot more detail; it’s certainly my most – it’s my most detailed book. I want to say technical but it’s still in my style, which is – I’m writing for the layman person interested in detail.


DANI: I think it’s very accessible. Very, very accessible.


KATY: Thank you. But still: there’s a lot of information. There’s a lot of detail there. And so I, too, think it’s my best book. Isn’t that weird?


DANI: Well, I mean, that’s good. You’ve really – you did put yourself into it. But it is concise.
KATY: Yeah.


DANI: I don’t know. It’s just easy to digest, and –


KATY: And it’s exercise-based. So I think a lot of times I’m writing – I’m writing large, theory pieces. Like, they’re huge. There’s a lot of – there’s a lot of the argument being presented, and it’s just very wordy. But in the end, there are some people who like that but there are other people who are like, that’s great, just give me the exercises! So I said, okay, I can start writing these smaller exercise manuals that have a lot of detail about – enough detail that help you understand the rationale of the exercise and how to select which exercise is for you. And then, just a ton of exercises. So while the book is only – what’s the page count?


DANI: 137. I think.


KATY: 137 of – yeah. So it’s 137 pages, and that’s actually – we just realized that the reference section was left off of this first print. So you can download the reference section. That’s another, like, 10 pages. And it’ll be in the next print.


DANI: Oh, yeah, it’s just the index and the appendix.


KATY: It was just left out. We just accidentally left it out of the file that went to the printers, so it was – it’s a printing snafu. It’s not the worst thing that ever happened.




KATY: Yeah, but anyway –


DANI: Well, you have a good track record of backing your stuff up.


KATY: Well, it’s like, the reference section is there, it wasn’t inserted. But whatever. In the end it’s less paper and it makes for less shipping. But now, we’ve fixed it. But my point was in 135 pages of written material, there are over 20 exercises. So that’s a lot. It just shows you that the ratio of the book is, uh, “do this” as opposed to “learn this.”


DANI: And that’s how it is set up – it’s set up in two main sections. One’s titled, “Think,” where you just kind of explain a lot, and then, “Move,” and then the program, which is all the pictures – great pictures demo-ing and explaining the exercises. And then 18 pages of resources, which is – everybody’s always bugging you, what about this shoe? What about that shoe? You’ve really provided us with a huge chunk of shopping material for healthy footwear.


KATY: Well, I wanted it to be a guide, and the biggest feedback from the last book was, you know, there’s 40 – actually, in Move Your DNA I think there’s, there’s like 80 exercises when you read through it. You know, there’s not all pictures, but they’re in text. Now do this, and do this, and do this. It’s that, people were like, when I’m done reading the book there’s no concise recap of – can I just look at these 10 pages and do one exercise after another? And I was like, I can start doing that for you. And I had done that in the first foot book where there was “the program” at the end where there was just the exercises to do. So I did that again this time, which I think makes it a lot more user friendly. I’m just trying to make it a lot more – I’m trying to make the information more usable. So there’s that, and then yes, the appendix – it’s kind of a shopping guide almost. It has all of the, here’s mobilizing products and websites and then here’s Do It Yourself minimal shoe websites organized. And even a how-to and when-to buy shoes. Like, how to prep your body to know you’re getting the right size. Just those little things that I hope make it super usable.


DANI: You’ve succeeded. Because it is.


KATY: Thank you.


DANI: Yep, I’m already loaning out my copy, because I already read it and it was great, so I just – and I’m going to buy one for our local library, too, because they need to have it as well.


KATY: I’ll donate one to your local library!


DANI: Oh, my gosh.


KATY: Just send me that information. I’ll donate one.


DANI: Billings Parmly library will thank you. So when you wrote the first foot book and you said it was 2011?


KATY: It came out in 2011, so I wrote it in 2010.


DANI: Wow, it seems so long ago. You didn’t want to make it specifically for women, right? But I think you had to, kind of, or that’s how it worked out?


KATY: Yeah, I mean I was originally just writing a book on feet and shoes, but the publisher, you know, they’re always looking for a niche audience and they were like, why don’t you write it towards women? And so I was like, okay, I can do that, you know. Because women – there’s more research on women and foot pain because women tend to make poorer footwear choices for longer periods of their life, so it was fine. I write in the beginning of the book, the first foot book, it says, this is called Every Woman’s Guide to Foot Pain Relief but it’s really for everyone and why I targeted it. But that turned out to be – I mean, it was a fine decision, because there are so many people – women – with foot pain who aren’t looking for a minimal footwear book. They’re looking for a “how to solve my foot pain” book. So it’s – yes, a lot of the solution was, you need to transition out of these shoes and strengthen your feet and whatnot, but this is really a book on a whole different topic. This is a – this is a new book that’s a foot book that’s specifically made for all genders, all ages. I even put dirt on the front. There’s no white, there’s no high heels. It’s dirt, it’s trees, it’s nature, because it really is about, again, natural loads and natural movement of the foot. So it has, like, a different audience. But I would say that a lot of people who read the first foot book will find even more correctives in this other book, so.


DANI: Yeah. And just the title in itself, with Whole Body Barefoot, you mention that you – that transitioning is about bringing all the parts to the party. So it’s not just about your feet. It’s like not a foot issue; it’s a whole body issue. So this is like a gateway book. Anybody that gets this that hasn’t been exposed to your other stuff, I’m sure they’ll be checking out or buying the books that you’ve written previous to this.


KATY: Well, that’s the beautiful thing about writing books, is yeah, you – most people who have come to KatySays or at least the Institute have come because of a specific issue. They’ve come because of a pelvic floor issue, or a low back issue, or a foot issue or a knee issue. They weren’t automatically those people who are just into natural movement, although there are those, too. So these little books are great, because it just gives you a solution, but it also kind of broadens your understanding of the problem.


DANI: Mm-hmm. And there’s even – as you said – hairy toes demonstrating some of the exercises.


KATY: Yes. We casted. We had to go through all sorts of people looking for the hairiest, best feet and legs to feature in this book.


DANI: Well, I just have to let you know. I have little hobbit toes, too, that are pretty hairy.


KATY: You should have submitted! I didn’t get your headshot, or your foot shot.


DANI: You know, my plate is full. I’m cool without doing that. You know, the gentlemen that are featured in this book did a great job of demonstrating the exercises, and some of the toes are hairier than others. Yeah! So this book is just for everybody, which is great. It’s simple, and what I like about it is that it asks the reader to take responsibility just by the two sections that are titled, “Think,” and “Move.” And those can’t be done for a person. They have to do it for themselves. But you ask that of them in the book but then you give them the tools to do that. I just – I love it. Am I geeking out too much about the book? I don’t know.


KATY: No, I don’t think so.


DANI: One of the things that I think really gave me pause – and you’ve said this before – but I just, can I read a quote from the book that I really liked?


KATY: Yes. Should I pretend like I’ve never heard it before?


DANI: Yes. Who wrote that? That’s brilliant! Yes. Act surprised and go, wow, I’m good. Okay. You were talking about – you were starting to refer to natural surfaces, and you say: “by walking on artificial surfaces all of our lives, our amazing, strong, variable musculature has adapted to becoming very good on one kind of ground. That sounds great, right? Adaptation is a good thing. In fact, adaptation isn’t good or baDANI: adaptation is just adaptation.” You’ve talked about that before, and that just really makes you think about: it’s not an improvement, changing to fit whatever’s happening to the body all the time.


KATY: Or, said another way, improvement depends on the scale at which you are assessing it. If something is an improvement or not. If something is a short term improvement it might not be a long term improvement, so –


DANI: Right.


KATY: So good or bad – you can say good or bad, but then you have to give the timeline that goes with that.


DANI: Right. And that lets me – I’m going to finish the rest of the quote now because you just –




DANI: You just –


KATY: Are you going to read a quote, or are you going to read a chapter?


DANI: You think alike, like you. That’s good! And then you go on to say: “ We have this idea that the body can endlessly adapt to whatever we choose to do, but that’s not the case. We can adapt for a while, but there is always a biological tax.” Great phrase, biological tax. “And in many cases, this tax is so far removed from the initial point of compensation, we don’t even associate the two, which keeps us consuming the problematic load.” Aah! I mean, jeeze, even if you just published that with a cover.


KATY: I should have just made that the book. That should have been the book.


DANI: And that’s a head slapper, it’s like, what?


KATY: Then I think I could release – if I did that, I could release, like, 750 books a year.


DANI: I know, but then you’d need to take more retreats, so. Slow down, girl, you move too fast. I think that that’s so much food for thought and it ties into personal responsibility. The fact that even just by putting on your shoes – putting on different shoes – you can change the way, the trajectory of your health.


KATY: Sure.


DANI: And we talked about that in the, you know, in the hurdles show. The Solution Show, people say, well, I don’t have time for this, and I don’t have time for that – it’s like, you just said even putting on different shoes can start to change how you feel and how your body works. And I just think that’s a great solution for anybody. That’s all you have to do is think about your footwear.


KATY: It’s certainly a good place to start.


DANI: It is a good – you should always start with your feet, right?


KATY: Are you reading the book right now? I hear the pages turning.


DANI: No, I was just kind of – looking at all my little quotes that I had really liked.


KATY: Just stand by while I read this book. I hope you’re enjoying this podcast.


DANI: Yes, would somebody bring me a cup of tea, please? Thank you.


KATY: Well, and I was really excited, too. I just want to give Jill Miller of Yoga Tune Up® a little shout out because she – did you see her two exercises on page 90 and 91? They were my favorite; it’s in the turnout section. There’s different types of foot turnout. There’s – well, you can read about them in the book. But she gave some really cool mobilizing exercises you can do with Yoga Tune Up® or a tennis ball, so I just wanted to say, “I love you, Jill!” And her picutres were so great. Like, the book is – I’m a very casual person as everyone knows. And I just like – I like the pictures in this book. I like the pictures in the first book, too, but, you know, there’s these kind of cool dudes, and it’s just pictures of different foot exercises, how to trace it and measure your foot and see if your rotation is changing the size of your foot. And then there’s Jill with her Fascia is the New Black tank top and her dog, like, walking over in the pictures.


DANI: Yeah, that’s great.


KATY: It’s just like – you know, being well is happy making.


DANI: It is. It is happy making.


KATY: It’s happy making, and so I just think that a book doesn’t have to be staunch, is that the right word? It doesn’t have to be stuffy.


DANI: Yeah. Yeah.


KATY: I just like that. I mean, I like that. And I’ll get flack for that sometimes, you know, just – you’re too casual or whatever. And even normalizing for the fact that I’m from California, it’s like, it’s because I think that, I think that perfection of that type is a façade, and being silly is okay and being happy and funny is okay. And as part of what makes doing 17 minutes of foot exercises that much more enjoyable.


DANI: Right. I can’t imagine you being staid or stuffy. And I think that your personality helps people’s barriers come down so they’re more open to learning, really. I mean, if someone’s having problems following what’s written or being talked about, all these walls go up and then they’re not getting it. But, you know, and they’ve got their own insecurities or whatever. But you – you’re hilarious, and I think actually that I have Jill’s book and her pictures – I mean, I opened right to some of her funny pictures right when I first got the book, and I was like, oh, this gal, she’s a hoot, too.


KATY: Yeah. She’s funny. But I think that’s why leaving the reference section – that I was bummed about that, because that’s how I can balance my explanation of schmear – you know, which is the effect of pronation on the whole body is done with peanut butter and jelly pictures, right? So the reference section is a nice way to balance my silliness. So we added a sticker that said, go down to the reference sticker here, just to balance out – I mean, I feel better about my silliness if it’s, you know, all official.


DANI: Yeah, but we believe you. And the artwork was great. I actually loved the peanut butter and jelly. I think it was just peanut butter.


KATY: It is. Jillian, Jillian did that.


DANI: You know, great artwork from her.


KATY: Jillian is amazing. You should give a nod to Jillian for some amazing pictures.


DANI: I think we just did. She’s – yeah. They were great. The artwork was great. And that brings me to schmear. People reading this book are going to learn about stuff that is really important to their whole body health, but that they probably never thought about, like neutral femur. You know – what? What, what what?


KATY: Mm-hmm.


DANI: And schmear, which is – it’s your term, baby. You coined it, right? Ankle schmear?


KATY: Yup.


DANI: Ankle schmear!


KATY: And I got, you know, I got some good feedback. I got some reviews, like I had a lot of different health professionals, podiatrists, athletic trainers do a review of this book saying early stuff and some of the best feedback was like, I am totally using schmear now. I’ll reference you, but this has been a term that has been missing in the technical language, because there is no word to explain the effects of a movement, just describing the movement as happening without the ground. Again, in the vacuum. So much anatomical speak is in the vacuum, so – yes. I don’t know – I mean, someone might change the schmear. I don’t know if you’ll ever see schmear in a textbook in 20 years, but you’ll probably see some reference to it. But schmear is the best word!


DANI: Ankle schmear. You have to add the ankle, you know, in front of it, because —


KATY: Ankle schmear. Foot scmear.


DANI: Yeah.


KATY: There’s a lot of different parts for schmearing.


DANI: It is good, and for people to, you can do a little exercise in the book. A little thing that you can do that you can learn how, you can change the size and shape of his foot by paying attention to that. So you kind of get walked through that, which is cool. I’m going to have my husband do that, because I’ve got a lot of schmear stuff going on there.


KATY: Schmear.


DANI: You know, I just want to have him do that part.


KATY: Can we do an exercise right now? Because –
DANI: I was just thinking that. What? This is a great time. Do it.


KATY: well, I was super excited, because this is an exercise that I’ve been teaching for years but have never made it into any blog post or book or anything. So it is, you know, brand new. It’s a nice addition for people who have been – you know, who read everything and have taken all the courses. It’s not even in the Institute’s course, so it might be new to you. But it’s essentially a calf raise, so if everyone just does a calf raise like you’re standing, and then you go on your toes and you come back down, that’s a calf raise. But if you pay attention to the way that you’re doing the calf raise, in many cases the calf raise is done by as you lift, as your heel comes away from the ground, you actually roll onto the outside of your foot. So, if you’re up on your toes like I am right now, you’re more on the pinky toe side of the foot and the ball of the foot is not pressing into the ground very much. There’s a good picture of this in the book and so you can see that the ankles really fall away from each other, and there’s also a rotation that’s happening at the hip. So you’re doing “the calf raise” but you’re not using very much calf to do it. So, you’re going to make it over by doing what I call calf elevators because elevators go straight up and straight down, unless you’re on a Willy Wonka elevator. But you’re going to press the ball of your foot down before you go up into a calf raise. You’re going to press the ball of the foot down. Lift the toes up, press the ball of the foot down, and kind of come off of the outside edge of your foot. The outside edge is still in contact, but it’s not – if you had a scale under the outside edge of your foot and under the ball of your foot, the outside edge should not show a heavier weight than the ball of the foot. And then you’re going to calf raise, pressing the ball of the foot down, keeping your ankle joint stable so that it’s a pure up-and-down motion and doesn’t have this kind of sideways fall-out or translation of the ankle joints. So do that. The end.


DANI: That really did make it over. Actually, when I read the book I was like, ah, she never talked about that before. And then when I tried to do it, and boy, sure enough, my ankles fell out to the side.


KATY: Yeah.


DANI: And I was using all sorts of parts of my body to get that calf raise up.


KATY: Yeah, you’re shoving your pelvis out in front of you.


DANI: Yeah, totally. Totally. And it’s something that I – it’s an exercise that I haven’t done since the 80s or 90s or whenever I was teaching step aerobics when we used to do those kinds of things on the edge of the step. So yeah, it was great! It was great. And it’s really hard now, making it over made it very challenging, but now I’m interested.


KATY: Here’s the other thing: you haven’t done it in the 80s since your step aerobics, you know, do 10 calf raises. But you use that motion every time you take a step. So when you do the calf raise, if your ankles fall out, your ankles are falling out with every step that you’re taking. So this was a way of showing you how you move all the time in a real, kind of concentrated alignment laboratory. So as you get stronger throughout the breadth of your calf muscles, as you recruit them more uniformly, that will translate to how you are walking, to how your calves are able – and your foot. It’s really the motion of the foot. You’re really using a lot more intrinsic foot musculature while you’re using your extrinsic musculature, which are explained in the book.


DANI: Okay. But maybe you could just –


KATY: No, I’m not. I refuse. You have to – no, I’m kidding. Yes, I will.


DANI: Intrinsic muscles are those within the foot. Intrinsic muscles are those that begin and end within the foot. Extrinsic foot muscles have one attachment in the foot and one outside of the foot, so your calves are extrinsic. So when you’ve been doing your calf raises, you’ve been doing an extrinsic strengthener, but because you weren’t also using your intrinsic muscles, you weren’t using as many extrinsic muscles as you thought. So it’s just kind of a way of re-integrating your parts back together again. And that’s the calf elevator Level I; there’s a couple other levels that are offered in the book, too, because we want to get you out and hiking varied terrain in a way that uses all of your lower leg muscles, even (audio unclear) stabilizes your knee and your ankle, so there you go.


DANI: Super. Super interesting. Wow. See, now I have to do that all the time, everybody. Calf elevator. Roll slow, steady. It’s only 33 joints in the foot. I know this from all your other stuff, and anatomy. But that’s a lot! That’s a lot going on down there to be –


KATY: Thank you for noticing.


DANI: This is a lot of joints to be slapped in a leather mitten. You know, that’s a lot of articulation and I think this is going to be educational on so many levels for people.


KATY: Well, at least on ground level first.


DANI: Yeah. And one of the neatest parts about the book is that everything – all the exercises and the stretches – you can use household items.


KATY: That’s – that’s my thing, you know.


DANI: You are a problem solver and a pretty practical person, but that’s just appreciated. So knowing that this book – you get this book and you don’t have to you know, sling yourself into debt for buying a bunch of equipment. It’s really simple; you have towels and tennis balls.


KATY: And stacks of books.


DANI: And stacks of books and phone books. So don’t recycle those phone books yet. I know they show up on your doorstep three times a week, but don’t do it yet because you need those!


KATY: That’s your lateral hip strength maker right there!


DANI: That’s right. Well, hopefully we’re going to talk about this more in subsequent shows, because it’s a fun book. And it’s a useful book.


KATY: Yeah, you know, I think there’s enough people that have it now that’d it’d be fun to do a show answering specific Q&A from people who have read the book, you know, clarifying and just getting commentary. So maybe we can do that next.


DANI: Ooh, Q&A’s fun. I like that.


KATY: Q&A is easy. Yeah.


DANI: And you even talk about kids’ feet in this book.


KATY: There’s a lot of kids’ shoes!


DANI: There’s a lot of kids’ shoes, yeah, the heel thing. That freaked me out.


KATY: Can I read my favorite part? No, I’m just kidding, to all you listening. My favorite sections in the book were all of the kid stuff. W-sitting. Toe walking, and heeled childrens’ shoes. They’re actually sidebars. There are 3, like, small subsections within the book that just talk about this thought all the way through and present the details of each one of those. And I think that parents will find a lot of value in the book, even though it’s not a book about – it’s a book about feet, human feet. Kids, adults. But I just find that those sections are what I find I get a lot of questions on, you know, the W-sitting, the famous W-sitting picture of my niece. But within the context of a foot book, it just made a lot of sense because we don’t think of W-sitting as something that goes on eventually to become a turnout maker, right?


DANI: Right.


KATY: So if you’re going, I have a turnout problem as an adult, and you’re trying to fix it by doing these corrective exercises, but then you see your children W-sitting, you might not put 2 and 2 together, that maybe your turnout arose – risen up? Like, I’m verbally just having lots of problems. It can be brought about – it can be exacerbated by that way of sitting. So these little things, you know, let’s look at 3 little things of how much texture are your kids exposed to and what does the texture input do to the gait cycle for kids?


DANI: That was very interesting. That was awesome, yeah.


KATY: It was. That was a last minute add because I just had read the newest research that had come out, I’m like, this is fascinating. This needs to be in a book for other people to read about, and I just knew that this piece of literature – no one would ever read about and it would get buried. And so I was like, I’m going to make a whole sidebar about that. I think it’s important, and again, it’s a question on toe walking that I get all the time, and it’s like, let me throw this at you and now you’ve got something else to read and investigate and other solutions to try at home. So. So yes. Whole Body Barefoot solution. I love it. I’m so excited.


DANI: Yeah. You should be.


KATY: And the cover. And I love the cover. I think that this is the most beautiful book yet. What do you think?


DANI: Well, first of all, you’re on the cover.


KATY: I am.


DANI: And you’re in –


KATY: I didn’t mean that.


DANI: No, no, no! But I’m describing it, because people don’t know. There’s no video, right? So they don’t know. You’ve got a tree that you’re in, so you’ve clearly climbed up in there, and are kind of hanging out on this tree, in your awesome Unshoes. Those are Unshoes, right?


KATY: They are. Yeah.


DANI: They’re cool.


KATY: That photo was a spontan – this was just a picture snapped of me while I was about to jump out of a tree.


DANI: Yeah, you look like you’re gonna, yeah.


KATY: It’s not like a posed photo, so I don’t – I just love it. But I meant, like, I like the – not my picture on the book. Just the cover. The cover, it’s dirt and it’s trees and it’s green, and I’ve got my favorite Unshoes on.


DANI: There’s some of Jillian’s art on the front, right? Of the foot.


KATY: Actually, no, she didn’t do that.


DANI: Oh, really?


KATY: No, a graphic designer laid all this out, and then there was this cool technical grid, if you look at it up close, like, I don’t know what it is but it’s all about body parts and communication and – I love Zsofi who does all of our graphic arts and stuff. And then on the back there’s this trail that’s all covered in rocks and dirt, and then of course, the colors. Like the green and the blue and the brown. I was going for a masculine kind of balance to the last pink and black and white, high-heeled cover, you know, for the foot book. So I feel like we’ve got nice bookends here.


DANI: Yeah, it’s very cool. And there’s a lot of men that are quoted in the book about their own, you know, barefoot transitioning experiences, so.


KATY: Your husband included is in here!


DANI: I know.

KATY: (audio unclear) comment.


DANI: I know.


KATY: Are you going to get him to autograph your book?


DANI: Yeah, I am, actually, if he forgives me for telling people he has ankle schmear on the podcast. Which, he’s a pretty good guy, so he probably will.


KATY: Well, didn’t you – I want to say something about the balls show but I just don’t think I will. Never mind.


DANI: Yeah, please don’t.


KATY: I won’t!


DANI: Okay, folks, and that’s our show for today! Thanks for tuning in to Katy Says! No, that is the show for the day, but we’ll talk about the book more and just feet more in general. Yeah, we’ve got to talk more about feet because, you know, like you saiDANI: start with your feet. And I just have to say, too, it’s just kind of cute how you dedicated this book to your feet.


KATY: Are you going to read the dedication? I’ll read the dedication.


DANI: Please do, because I think that people want to hear that Demi Moore voice more. So go for it.


KATY: Actually, Demi Moore recorded my audio book dedication, and it goes something like this: “For my feet, who have literally supported me through thick and thin, and ups and downs, and have gotten me to where I am today. Thank you.”


DANI: Thank –


KATY: Hoo-yah!


DANI: Thank goodness for them. So it’s a great book. April 1st, we’ll talk about it more.


KATY: All right.


DANI: Thank you for your time today.


KATY: All right, I’m going to go out and take a walk.


DANI: Take those feet for a walk!


KATY: Yeah, they’re going to take me.


DANI: That’s right. All right, I’ll talk to you later. Have a great day.


KATY: Bye, Dani.

Note: You can find Katy’s book Whole Body Barefoot: Transitioning Well to Minimal Footwear in our shop!

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