The Core, Podcast Ep. 10

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DANI: Hi, and welcome to Katy Says. I’m Dani Hemmat, and Katy and I are going to talk about core stuff today. The Core, with a capital T and capital C. What’s going on, how are you today?


KATY: Ugh, I’m tired, but I’m also energized at the same time. How about you?


DANI: I am tired and not energized, so. What’s up with that? That’s what I get. I had to go to First Aid class last night and then I was tired, so I drank coffee at 8:00 and I’m just too old to do that anymore.


KATY: I do see, though, that you sat on the floor. You posted a picture of like, I’m the only one in the room sitting on the floor!


DANI: I did, and I told my husband and he said, ‘oh, man, I can’t believe you sat on the floor.’ And I was like, I felt better when I walked out of the classroom than all those people who were sitting on chairs for 3 hours, trust me.


KATY: I guess that’s why you’re tired, because you basically exercised for 3 hours and they just sat there.


DANI: Yeah. Got some hip stretches in there, though, so that feels pretty good. Okay. Core is always a question that comes up in any wellness or fitness paradigm, it just comes up all the time. And there’s a section in your latest book, Move Your DNA, which is a great title, it’s called Core Activation, Schmooze Activation. And it’s a little mind-blowing; not the title but what you propose within, because it addresses the belief that probably, like, 99.4% of us have, that core exercises are essential for the optimal function of The Core. And maybe that’s not how it works? But we need to know what does work, why – we need to rethink it, and what, if anything, is missing from how we’re using our bodies? So let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about the idea that the way we think we’re strengthening our core and protecting our spine may be the actual habits that are disabling their function. So what I need from you, since you’re so awesome with words and semantics, is what your working definition of the core is?


KATY: Yeah, I guess we should all be on the same page with basic terms. So when I use the term, core, I mean everything that runs between the rib cage and the pelvis, right? That whole center. Core means – the center of the thing, it’s your body. So it’s what runs between those two parts. The spine is pretty flimsy – it’s like the flimsiest part of your skeleton; you’re must more robust in the rib cage, kind of like this 3-dimensional cage, and the pelvis is also this 3-dimensional cage, and so you’ve got all this structure but in your core, between those two parts, you don’t have very much bone. This is good, because it allows for lots of movement; if you had the same bony integrity going up through your trunk, you wouldn’t be able to move – you wouldn’t be able to move as much, and you’d also be very heavy. So you’ve got this kind of trade off where you lose some of your skeletal stability in your trunk, but you’re also jam-packed with muscle through that area. So the way that the forces can potentially play out in your trunk is that they end up providing a skeleton-like structure. However, because you have different motor programs, the way that the muscles can all work together depending on what sort of movement you’re doing, that skeleton, that “skeleton-like action” is very dynamic, meaning that you could have all sorts of bony shapes to your trunk. I’m doing lots of parenthesis in the air; do you know what I’m saying?


DANI: I do, and I’m just kind of thinking, that’s a really big thought, to think about having a dynamic skeletal function like that, but not of bone. I mean, that’s a cool way to think of it.


KATY: Yeah, it’s like if I – if you would draw a free body diagram for every different type of movement – type of movement – I’m getting all excited and spinning and like – because of how strong my core is pushing out the breath, which is then pushing out the saliva onto the microphone. Every time you change a position, the – what do I want to say – the net strength creates a resistance to movement in a particular plane. And so in that way, you can be strong to resist lots of different types of motion, and so in that way, you have a really beautiful structure because you get the best of both worlds. You get the ability to change your position: imagine if your rib cage went all the way down to your pelvis, right?


DANI: Whoa. You’d be like one of those LEGO mini figures.




DANI: You wouldn’t be able to –


KATY: Oh, perfect. Perfect. You would just be hinging at the hips, and you would have a weird hat and no face. Although maybe they have faces now. You would have, yes, you would hinge only at the hips, which, on one hand would be, look how much more supported or protected your organs are. But it would also mean that you couldn’t twist, meaning that every time you wanted to turn around or get something, you’d have to walk in a circle. And so you’re full of all these trade offs where your structure kind of represents negotiation between energy costs and mobility, which is required to get that energy. So that’s how I think of the core, and when I talk about the core, that’s the system that I’m talking about optimizing is that you have as many different – that you can create strength in many different planes and that your skeleton-like action of your trunk, the ability to stabilize the spine and organs with it and support the functions within the trunk are fluid and dynamic and functioning. Meaning that they’re strong.


DANI: Okay, we’re all on the same page with that. That was a very excellent description, thank you. So in the book, what are you – exactly what do you mean by your – it’s kind of a bold and saucy statement of


KATY: That doesn’t sound like me, that doesn’t sound like me.


DANI: Core activation, schmore activation.


KATY: Well, so I’ve just explained this idea that if you could draw the net skeleton that it would be constantly changing through your trunk. That the bones would be in different places based on how you were moving. But with core activation, what we’ve focused on in our non-moving culture is creating one way of “stabilizing” the spine. We are trying to create a set of forces that get the same stabilizing effect that I’m talking about, but only in one, limited plane. We’ve found this kind of one muscular contraction, joint configuration that we want to brace against mostly because we don’t move.


DANI: I have to interrupt you – I just want to make sure I understand this – when you, when we’re talking core activation, you’re talking about that conscious bracing or activating. Like that thought of pulling your belly button to your spine, is that what you’re talking about?


KATY: Well, it could be that. For many people it is, but for a lot of people – a lot of people do things in their trunk whether they’re sucking their stomach in or whether they’re quote – again, my big fingers doing the parentheses – “firing their TVA” or their TRA, the transverse abdominals that we talk about in the book. Bracing the spine, trying to – whatever it is, whatever someone does regularly with their trunk, which is another word for the torso – whatever they’re doing consciously to create stability within that area is – it’s very narrow. It’s one particular load over and over and over and over again, which as we’ve talked about before really isn’t the best thing for the body. That when you do things in one way over and over and over again, all the other ways get weak. And when it comes to forces, you can kind of bend the body towards that one particular force while that firing your transverse abdominus – while your transverse abdominus is firing in reaction to a movement you’re doing is totally natural. It’s not natural to continuously engage your trunk, for you to do it with your mind. It should be happening based on the load that is placed upon the muscle.


DANI: Okay, and you cut out for just a second there – you said it was not natural or normal for you to do it with your mind, right?


KATY: Correct.


DANI: Is that what I got? Okay. Why don’t I need to activate my core? Why don’t I need to think about – you know, what’s missing when I do that, if anything, from the whole or natural movement?


KATY: Everything else.


DANI: Everything else.


KATY: I mean, this is good. I think that you and I having this conversation is good because I can hear when you read it; you’re getting what I say, yeah, kind of.


DANI: Oh, yeah.


KATY: But at the same time, what does it all mean? I think that it’s kind of like, um, the cardiovascular conversations that we’ve had or that I talk about in the book – it’s like, what is the cardiovascular system supposed to do? Well, we’re supposed to have a strong heart, and that heart is supposed to keep beating, when in fact that’s not what the cardiovascular system is supposed to be doing. It’s supposed to be distributing oxygen, all the way to the cellular level, which involves many more structures beyond the heart and the arteries. It’s the same thing with the trunk. What is the trunk supposed to be able to do? That would be my question – that’s my first question. I always – I’m such a Socratic teacher, and I know it irritates a lot of people. Does it irritate you?


DANI: Uh, mildly, but I still love you for it.


KATY: (laughs)


DANI: You make me think, and that matters a lot.


KATY: Yeah


DANI: I pay attention


KATY: And I think that when we talk about semantics and ideas like this, like core activation schmore activation is an inflammatory way in two words of saying, you don’t need to activate your core. On one hand, you need core activation; your core needs to be able to respond to the loads that are placed upon it. What’s happening is, no loads are placed upon it with regularity – or – sometimes there are loads placed upon it with regularity that are not in response to movement. Like pregnancy. Being pregnant would be a load placed on the structure of your core muscles. However, we are so busy not moving. We spend most of our time not moving, so therefore our muscles in their – I want to say their flaccidity – I Don’t think that’s the right word.


DANI: No, it’s kind of a gross word, too.


KATY: It is. (Whispers) Flaccidity.


DANI: (groans.) No.


KATY: I know. Flaccid Fin Syndrome. Like, flaccid is just – I don’t know what it is. All the c’s. All the consonants, the hard consonants. That your – the state of your trunk, the state of your core musculature, the state of your strength within your core is not – it is the result of how you have moved, which is not at all. And that the core activation that we do; the stomach exercises that we do are very similar to an orthotic. It’s an artificial means of getting a support. It’s not reflex-driven. It’s not coming in response to anything. Your stomach muscles didn’t fire because you did anything that required them to move, which is why they just sit there. You have to create something that they can brace against. So you do something that turns them on and creates some force and some pressure to stabilize, but while it has a short-term benefit – all orthotics have a short-term benefit – it has a longer-term detriment in that the adaptations to the orthotic move that muscle system away from being able to respond to movement when you do decide to move.


DANI: Do you think that casting or that use of orthotics, say I go to the gym and I do 100 crunches a day and that’s the length that my muscles are used to working at, is a habitual exercise like that the same sort of casting as if a person who always sucks my stomach in without even really thinking about it, like, it’s just a habit, is that still placing that same cast on those muscles? So that they’re unable to work properly?


KATY: Well, a cast. You are casted by what you do the most. So you adapt to 100% of what you do. So your particular cast, Dani, would be set by whatever it is you do. If you suck your stomach in all day, you’re casted to that. If you suck your stomach in all day and do 100 sit-ups, then you’re casted to that. If you suck your stomach in all day and keep your transverse abdominus and do sit-ups and planks, then you’ll adapt to that. You’re adapting to all of it, and each one of those things that I listed that you do change the impact of everything else. Because when you start putting forces on top of each other, then you get a new net force. So you’re adapting to that net set of whatever it is that you do. You’re not adapting to any one thing more than anything else; you’re adapting to what you do 100% of the time.


DANI: Okay. What you do the most of the time. Okay.


KATY: What you do all of the time.


DANI: What you do all of the time. Okay. Well, I’m going to lave that – I’m going to move that question because that made me start thinking about a different thing.


KATY: What’d it make you start thinking about?


DANI: So, first of all, I want to ask you real quick, do you have a stretch for us today, and if you don’t, that’s okay, we can move on, but I know people love them quick stretches.


KATY: Well, how about something that uses the trunk, which is if you’re sitting or standing, keep your pelvis in place, don’t let your pelvis move. Imagine – this is going to sound weird – imagine that you have a rod going all the way up through your tailbone out the top of your head. So you want to be like a pig on a spit, if that makes sense. And you’re going to turn your rib cage – you’re going to twist, essentially – your rib cage relative to your torso, without letting your rib cage move off of the spit. So a lot of times when people twist, they’ll end up lifting their chest or moving their whole body forward relative to the pelvis. This is just like a little twist to one side, can you do that?


DANI: Yep.


KATY: And maybe the other side. And you’re being mindful that not only is the front of your body moving, let’s say for example, I’m moving to the right, but the back of my body is moving to the left. You want to think about turning both hands on the wheel there, that motion coming from your waist is not only being turned from the right side, you’re also being turned from the left side.


DANI: Okay.


KATY: That’s pretty nice, especially if we’re just sitting here in place, talking in the microphone. A twist is one of those motions I haven’t figured out how to get into a podcast. I can sit on the floor, I can stand, I can sit cross-legged and stretch, but the twisting. My trunk is pretty inactive during podcasting except for talking.


DANI: Wow, thanks for bringing this into the realm of understanding. That’s good, I’ll add that into my office stretches. Okay, I’m going to tell you what that thread brought up then.


KATY: Oh, okay, let’s go there.


DANI: Okay. In the book, I loved that you talked about releasing the abdomen, because it’s an intense exercise, I guess, if that’s what you’d call it. And it’s both physically intense and emotionally intense, and you know, I can do bicep curls and that doesn’t mean anything emotionally to me, but letting my belly go: that’s huge. That’s like tied into all sorts of stuff. And when you suck your belly in, and we just kind of do this, I think, in our culture, you know? Someone walks by; you suck your belly in. Pictures, or even just – you’re constantly sucking it in, and letting it go is so not a part of our – it’s definitely not a national pastime, I’ll say.


KATY: Letting it all hang out.


DANI: Letting it all hang out. That’ snot just something that we do, or even really talk about. I guess I want to talk about that. I want to talk about how you figured that out, were you ever – because I know for a long time you were very, well, you’re a very athletic person, and you were very into fitness and stuff like that. Were you a sucker inner? A sucker upper? Whatever you want to call it?


KATY: Not really. I’ve never been a sucker upper besides, you know, the photo. The bikini photo.


DANI: (laughs)


KATY: If you take a picture of me when I’m walking around in my bathing suit I’m sure I’ll do some sort of reflexive, like, photo! Gasp! Kind of thing. But in general, no, and it probably has to do with the fact that I don’t have a lot of abdominal fat. Abdominal fat is not where I carry any extra weight. So I think that for a lot of people, in my generation, which is, you know, 30s – I was going to say late 30s, but I went to 30s. What was that about? In my later 30s.


DANI: I guess you can call yourself whatever you want.


KATY: Yes, that’s right. That it’s just – that sucking in if you have a lot of abdominal fat might be the more norm, as opposed to – the reason I put differentiation between generations, I would say that older generations that I’ve worked with, people in their 50s and 60s and 70s, keeping your stomach in was part of the manners. It seems to be really tied up to manners. Like, a lady – a lady meaning that you are not a lady unless you –


DANI: Oh, I am so not a lady, but –


KATY: Yeah, well, but, you know. I think of like a narrow – so much of this construct that we talk about is cultural, right? So what’s with the small waists and the corsets, and I think that sucking it in probably – once corsets were moved out of the culture, then the next step of stuff to move out would have been the manual way of getting this corset-like shape, which is then if there’s nothing outside to push it in, then you’re going to have to pull it in from the inside, which is what sucking it in is. It’s creating this vacuum in which you’re making the mass in front of you go away a little bit. So I think that there’s definitely generations that tend to do it more and there are people who have had it drilled into them more, that it’s part of good posture, right? Keep your stomach in.


DANI: I think many of us, and I’ll call my generation, uh, 40. We were told by our parents, you know: ‘pull your stomach in,’ when we were little.


KATY: It’s not just generational – it’s also what was a priority. I’m trying to think of the nicest way to say this. What was the priority of the family? I’ve worked with thousands of people over a decade and a half and one thing that I’ve found is that there are more people that not everyone has been conditioned to how they appear to others in the same way. There are definitely families in which your appearance within the family and to those outside of the family, it is something that is drilled in much more. I was fortunate where I didn’t really have that – I didn’t’ have that – I mean, not to say that I don’t have a billion other issues, it’s just that that one wasn’t it. It’s not tied up with my femininity, with my worth. It’s not tied up with my being desirable or being a woman. Keeping my stomach in is not at the core – my core issues. But I know what it is, I know why you’re bringing it up, the emotions that are releasing.


DANI: Well, yeah. You’re lucky, but a lot of both men and women were really, gosh, you suck it in and once you’ve heard that for so many years, you get into that cycle of that cultural expectation. You don’t even think about it. It’s not even conscious.


KATY: right.


DANI: So to consciously let go, that’s a trip.


KATY: Yeah, and then having people – gosh, it’s really hard for me to talk about this because I know it’s such a hot button issue. You know, when people are intimate and naked, that even when you’re in this naked and intimate situation – you know what this situation is that I’m talking about, I’m trying to keep it family-friendly.


DANI: I think I’m with ya.


KATY: Yes, yes. That even then you’re sucking it in. Even then the mechanics of what you’re doing to your trunk and your abdomen and therefore pulling on in your pelvis, and whatnot are all affecting the act that you may or may not be doing, while you are naked and intimate. And it’s that kind of stuff – you know, I get a lot of questions about s-e-x – and the only reason I’m spelling it out is just in case you are listening with your children and don’t want them to, oh my gosh, I’m just rambling now. I’m just – as a parent I’ve become hyper aware of this stuff. But it’s all tied up: pelvic floor issues and pelvic pain and self worth and holding your stomach in, or your gut. And sometimes it’s not self worth. Sometimes it’s just, I was told that that’s good posture and so I do that.


DANI: Right, right.


KATY: So it’s not just self-worth.


DANI: Or structural safety, even. I mean, some people think they have to have it pulled in to protect their back, and actually a lot of older people that I work with, that’s their belief is that that’s – it’s a structural necessity.


KATY: Yes. I thought you were talking about during that intimate act, and I was like, wow, that’s a lot – I mean, you have to keep yourself safe, people. Keep your transverse abdominus on to stabilize your spine.


DANI: You’d be surprised at how wild those seniors can get, man.


KATY: I know, I know. So yeah, it’s a – we could do a lot of –


DANI: You made me blush!


KATY: Did I?


DANI: Yeah, I’m alone in my office with headphones on.


KATY: It is – this is a big issue.


DANI: It is a huge issue.


KATY: Well, and also – so I wrote Move Your DNA and Move Your DNA is like, it’s like, um, the primer. It really is the primer, and it’s huge. It’s a huge overview. But now what I’m going and doing is writing these smaller, you know, 20,000 word books on all of these other – parsed out stuff. Because as I said in the book, each little paragraph in that book, each sub-heading could be its own book, and so even though core got a pretty hefty – the core and the pelvis got a hefty – it got its own chapter –


DANI: Yeah, the pelvis got its own chapter. Woo!


KATY: It really could be its own book, and so could the core. So I’m doing a diastasis recti book specifically because there’s so much to these issues but they’re really all interconnected, and so if you want to understand what your core is doing and then what I’m really saying about whole body movement, you’re going to have to think outside the core. You’re going to have to go, well, my legs attach to my pelvis, which in turn attaches to the core. My latissimus dorsi, which is like your, a big large wing, your bat-wing muscle that attaches to your arm also attaches to your pelvis. You can’t talk about the core and the pelvis without realizing that every step you take with your feet and every move that you make with your arm is translating into loads that your trunk is adapting to.


DANI: Which is the first step for understanding how it works.


KATY: Yeah.


DANI: It’s kind of cool, I’m just picturing like the Chronicles of Narnia on my bookshelf with the 7 books, but it’s going to be like, the Chronicles of Katy. You know, okay, now we’re on to the pelvis!


KATY: Yes, and I’m going to put lions in it, and some wardrobes, and I’ll be the witch.


DANI: Excellent. Excellent. And the little guys with hooves, what are they called?


KATY: Centaurs?


DANI: Satyr?


KATY: I don’t know.


DANI: Centaur’s a horse guy. And then there’s like a goat guy. So, you know.


KATY: Oh my gosh. We are such nerds.


DANI: More stuff for you to write about! So because you weren’t a sucker inner but I guess you knew the importance of having that released –


KATY: No. What I know was the biomechanics.


DANI: Know what I mean?


KATY: What I know is – I know – what I know is the biomechanics. What I know is: you are a pressure system. You are a contained pressure system. So – the thing with biomechanics that is kind of hard – you know. People will say, how did you figure all this out? And it’s like – that’s the beauty of biomechanics is, you’re not necessarily figuring things out. I mean, pressure works the same – I mean, pressure works the way that it works. So you are a contained system, and you’ve got three pressure bags. You’re a pressure bag starting with your thoracic cavity. Your diaphragm is the bottom of the thoracic pressure bag, but it’s the roof of your abdominal pressure bag. And then the bottom of that abdominal pressure bag sits right on top of the pelvic pressure bag, which is kind of like your pelvic contents. So you’ve got these chambers of pressure, but they’re all connected. So you can’t change the pressure in one without changing the pressure in the other – or, if the pressure is to stay the same, you have to create some sort of geometrical or skeletal change. Something has to change if you are messing around with your pressures. And so if someone is sucking their stomach in all of the time, how did you come to know this? I guess the easiest way to explain it is that I’ve taught a lot of people, and I’ve worked with a lot of people over many, many years, breaking down – they’ll come in and say, “I’m doing all of my core exercises, and look at my core. Like: look at my trunk. Look at the say that it looks, look at the way that it functions, I’ve got these bulging discs in my back, I’ve got diastasis recti. Check out my exercises.” And I watch them doing their exercises and okay, I know what you think you are doing, but let me show you something. Come onto your hands and knees. I want you to fire your transverse abdominal muscles, and they’ll do what they think is firing their transverse abdominal muscles and they’re doing a hybrid instead, of sucking in their stomach and tucking in their pelvis. So if you’re only looking at the belly button, there’s this net displacement upward. But that’s not an indication of the transverse abdominus, because I saw all of these other things that would not be happening were that the case. And then you slowly start breaking down the motion. It’s like, okay, I want you to do that again, but I don’t want your pelvis – I want you to set your pelvis here, in this position, and do that again, but don’t move the pelvis. Then they realize that they can’t, so everything that they were doing to strengthen their core, or to fire a particular muscle was in fact not that. Because there’s not a real robust understanding of how to evaluate motion. And so then I realized that, ok, I could hear – I can hear by the way you’re breathing during this exercise that because I knew you took in oxygen when you did that, and because I saw this bone move, I know that something had to happen to the diaphragm during that time. And we also, just like we need the pelvis still, we need the diaphragm still, and so that’s why we do things like how you breathe during exercise to make sure that you’re not getting what looks like the exercise done while you in fact just displace a part of you via something else. So that’s how that all came about. So then I’ll – before anyone does a core exercise, let’s see if you can do this even more simple one, which is relax the abdomen. So it’s kind of this, more like a primer: before you do anything else, you need to check yourself that you are not holding your gut in, which would mean that when you do fire whatever else you’re trying to fire that you end up pushing things up into your thoracic cavity. So it’s complex. It’s complex to explain and on a radio show like this, and it’s probably why I’ll need to do a few of these, but also I think the book helps if you have some sort of reference.


DANI: It does. It does. I especially liked how you explain the muscles being at the ready, like a tennis player. How a tennis player always goes back to his ready position so that he can execute any – hit, swing, what do you call it. I don’t know, I don’t play tennis.


KATY: Moves? I don’t know, I had to look all those up.


DANI: Shot!


KATY: Shot. Firing your transverse abdominals all the time would be the equivalent of a tennis player and walking on to the court with your hands and your racket arranged in a backstroke and trying to play the entire game from that position. Do you know how many shots you’d miss because you’ve primed your body for a shot that may or may not be coming. So if you get that particular shot, you’ll hit it, but in a game of tennis, that we’ve established that neither you or I actually know anything about – the likelihood that you’re going to get a backhand or be able to get your body to a place where you are able to use the backhand is very, very low relatively speaking over the course of the entire game. We’re speaking in terms of percentages, so don’t pre-arrange yourself for one particular body shot when you are going to be moving in many, many different ways. It limits the performance of the game, but it also, if you were a tennis player and only hit the ball in one way you’d get some injuries because you would be training all of your parts to be strong in this one really narrow way, and everything else would get weaker. That’s essentially what’s happened with the core. THE CORE.


DANI: Yeah. That’s – that’s a great visual, the visual of having that tennis player be at the ready to handle any sort of shot that comes their way. That’s an excellent visual.


KATY: Yeah.


DANI: But the book is so helpful for this understanding. I thought I knew stuff, but I know a lot more stuff after reading through the book a couple times. It’s good.


KATY: Thanks. Thanks.


DANI: I have all these little things highlighted that, really, you could be your own quote machine. Um, we could make a quote of the day desktop calendar someday for you, that you could rip off one. Oh, today Katy says…but one of my favorite ones that I have highlighted in the book is, you say, “A continuously flat stomach, while perhaps valuable for cultural purposes, is not necessary for physiological ones.” I think a lot of people need to hear that.


KATY: Like, look at your kids, right? Do your kids walk around with flat stomachs all the time?


DANI: Nope.


KATY: Do babies walk around with flat stomachs all the time? No, but when you see kids change their position – because they’re not usually encumbered yet with the cultural message that they’ve got these kind of lower bellies that poke out – as it should! You’ve got heavy organs.


DANI: Yeah, there’s some big old organs down in there when you’re a kid.


KATY: They’re always trying to go down and out the front. That’s where your stomach will naturally be pooching. That’s where the organs are, and there should be a tone, though, in response to that, but that tone should be challenged through you moving all of the time. And when you do – when kids, little kids do something like change their position or talk or yell, you will see their stomach go from this adorable pooch to flat. It flattens as necessary, it flattens when you need to generate the force. They don’t keep it flat all the time, and look at that kid and go, what is in my mind right now that makes me feel like my self-wroth is really tied up with not looking like this, which is a totally natural way to look. Which is a whole different show.


DANI: It’s a whole different show. But it was good to read and I’m glad you put that in there, I think that was a nice gift for everybody, to just think about it that way.


KATY: Well, if the whole biomechanist thing doesn’t work out, I will be a quote machine, and also maybe a random number generator. QuicKATY: 47. 47.


DANI: That’s good!


KATY: 103.

DANI: Give me 6 more; I’ll go play the Lotto.

KATY: Okay.

DANI: I figure my odds will increase if I actually buy a ticket, so.

KATY: That’s what they say, but I want to see proof. I want to see the research on that.

DANI: Ah, statistics.

KATY: Yeah.

DANI: Who needs them? Well, how are you going to go out and move your DNA today?

KATY: I already did. I mean, I’m not done moving throughout the day, but it’s been a long morning. I’m doing lots of interviews, and I took a walk to the post office to pick up all of the things in my PO box, which were amazing, and then I carried them back. I was actually expecting mail, and I ended up getting 4 packages – four! Big ones!

DANI: Cool.

KATY: And I had walked. And I had walked, given myself 45 minutes to get there and back in time to meet with you, so I ended up carrying some on my head and one on my arm, and then I had to keep switching the arm that was holding the one down, and then the arm that was holding the rest of them on my head. So I have moved my DNA in really a way that I’ve never moved it before. So that’s what happened to me today.

DANI: Well, that was good. So I’ve been carrying stuff on my head, too.

KATY: Yeah, it’s fun, huh?

DANI: It is fun!

KATY: It’s fun!

DANI: You bring your A-game, man. You just bring your A-game when you’re carrying something on your head. It’s like weird, huge fun. I love it. Okay. Cool. I think this could be a million shows, but our time is up.

KATY: All right. Well, I only have one more thing to say.

DANI: Say it.

KATY: 482!

DANI: Awesome, way to go!

KATY: All right, that’s it. The end.

DANI: You’re good. Bye bye.

KATY: Bye.

Show notes: For more information on the core, read Katy’s book: Diastasis Recti: The Whole Body Solution to Abdominal Weakness and Separation

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