REFLECT on 2017 before you RESOLVE in 2018 – Podcast Episode #92

It’s that time of the year again: Your Health and Movement Year-end Review! Join Katy and a special guest as they look back on their movement and health goals of 2017 and then look forward to just how great 2018 is going to be!


00:04:40 – Meet our special guest! Jump to section

00:10:13 – Reflect 2017 Jump to section

00:57:15 – Resolve 2018 Jump to section



Robin Blanc Mascari’s questions list

Into the Heart: One Man’s Pursuit of Love and Knowledge Among the Yanomami book

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Access all previous podcasts via your podcast provider of choice (Stitcher, iTunes, Libsyn, or Soundcloud).


Hi friends! It’s me Katy.

I want to explain how the Katy Says Podcast is going forward in 2018. I have loved all my podcasts to date. But really, doing a podcast for the sake of doing a podcast is not my style. I’m interested in one thing. And that’s moving more. I’m interested in the effects of movement, understanding how movement works in the world, and the delineation of movement for the sake of better scientific investigation. But really the point of knowing all that stuff is to help me, and you maybe, move more and move more of ourselves.

I’m really interested in three areas of movement right now: How movement relates to nature, how it relates to community, and how movement relates to the shape of our habitat. That is, the clothing we wear, the shapes of our buildings, and the walkability of our cities, to name a few.

For the next few months I’ve decided to bring in people that are changing the world through their passions and skills and who, at least from my perspective, are using movement to do it. These are not movement teachers. Most of them probably don’t even view what they do in terms of movement but I perceive it as that way. And by interviewing them, I’m hoping to lead you to see the movement in what they’re doing too. To see movement outside of exercise is the key to transitioning away from being a sedentary culture. At the same time, I know you have questions.

Many of you are navigating tiny aches and pains, feeling unable to move various parts of your body, let alone adding movement to various parts of your life. So every show, I’ll be answering two or three listener questions. You can email them to

Then I’ll conduct and interview with the purpose of learning some actions we can take or movements we can make right away. Every show, then, will leave you with some small exercises and some large non-exercise actions you can take into your life straight away.

If you’re new to the show and want to catch up on some of the ideas we discuss, I recommend reading my book Alignment Matters. And reading or listening to – they’re available on Audible or ITunes – Move Your DNA and Movement Matters. These three books, Alignment Matters, Move Your DNA, and Movement Matters, are a sort of short series to give you a large context to bring to your listening.

Also, creating a podcast is expensive. I’ve paid for it myself the last few years, but I’ve realized that I needed sponsors to keep it going. I wasn’t super excited about having ads in the show. It felt off-brand to me. So I decided to think outside the sponsorship box and I came up with this idea of a sponsorship co-op, formed out of a handful of small North American companies, making things I have used myself for years. Items that have helped me and my family move more. Products I have already been referring people to. So I’m excited to bringing this dynamic moving collective in 2018.

Finally, one more change. The podcast name, Katy Says, came from my 10 year old blog of the same name. A name that was sort of an in-house joke. Anytime anyone learned a tidbit from my work, they’d spread it with a “Well, Katy says…” much to their annoyance of their friends and family. Well while it’s a great name, it’s just not very descriptive for a person looking to learn more about movement as they scan various podcast databases. So I decided to change the name from Katy Says to Move Your DNA with Katy Bowman. That’s me. All of the podcasts will stay together on one page. Your subscription will automatically be updated.

And P.S., If you haven’t subscribed to the podcast or reviewed it even, these are great expense free ways to support Katy Says… I mean, the Move Your DNA podcast. Look for all of the changes in the next episode. Today I’m visiting with a dear friend of yours and mine for an end of the year tradition. I am so stoked to kick off this 2018 podcast series and I hope you’re excited to listen. I can’t wait to get moving more, moving more of me, and more of you, movement.

Ok. That’s enough preamble. Let’s get started.


KATY: It’s the Katy Says podcast – soon to be the Move Your DNA podcast. I am Katy Bowman, fellow human, mover, mother, biomechanist, and author of Move Your DNA and a bunch of other books about movement. And I have a guest that I am certain will excite you!  Dani Hemmat!  How the heck are ya?


DANI:  Hello!


KATY: Weeeee!


DANI: I am good.


KATY: I can hear people smiling from here.  I can hear all that “Yeah, we love Dani!”


DANI:  Awww… I’m one of those smiley people. It’s nice to hear your voice. Like in a conversation not just in a class or podcast host – it’s nice to talk with you.


KATY: Oh my gosh.  Do you listen to the other podcasts and then feel the need to throw yourself in there like, “hey guys, hey hey, I’ve got something to say.”


DANI: I’ve got a really good pun. I’ve got a good pun.  Uh…


KATY: We have pun suffered. I mean Stephanie – she’s just as word smithy as you are.


DANI: Excellent.


KATY: But I feel like we might be a low on the pun count. Which might please a lot of our other listeners.


DANI: I was gonna say. A lot of people are probably like, “Oh finally.”


KATY:  Yeah. Right.  I mean it’s like … different strokes. Different strokes.


DANI: Right.


KATY: So, what’s going on. What do you want to tell the people?


DANI: What do I want to tell the people?  Wow. I don’t know. I’m just really enjoying my new… I kinda just switched gears. Really busy. It’s like I’m a movie producer. It’s like constantly going. But all is well. All is well in Dani-land.


KATY: I’m so glad.


DANI: And I miss everybody too. It’s like I try to keep up with the calls and everything and you guys are awesome. And I hope everyone is doing well.


KATY: Everyone is doing great. The podcast… I feel like I just said, we’re going from the Katy Says podcast to the Move Your DNA podcast.


DANI: I think that’s a wise and timely move. I think so.


KATY: Yeah. It’s a good decision. And also we’re kicking off a series of where I am interviewing. My husband was like, he was kind of worried that it would go a bit like that Saturday Night Live skit where Chris Farley is interviewing Paul McCartney. Did you ever see that?




KATY: He’s like, “So, um, it’s you say that, like, all the love you’ve taken equals to the love you make.”


DANI: *giggles*  Oh my gosh!


KATY: “Is that true?”


DANI: You’re gonna do way better than that.


KATY: I think it’s gonna take me a few. So anyone out there, bear with me. I am used to being interviewed not doing the interviewing so this is like a good year to learn how to be a better listener.


DANI: What kind of subjects are you going to interview?


KATY: People who have done the really large version of a movement that many of us are trying to do on a small version. For example, my first guest, that will be the next episode, is Jason Lewis, who was the first human to circumnavigate the planet.


DANI: Oh cool.


KATY: Human powered.


DANI: I can’t wait.


KATY: And so if people are going, “I don’t really want to set off on a 20-mile walk…” Well, let’s listen to the person who powered themselves 13,000 miles or whatever it is. You know, just because I feel like they have a particular set of knowledge and wisdom that then maybe they can hand down like a mother bird. Like chew it down and just give us a couple little bites…


DANI: I can’t wait for the wisdom regurgitation.


KATY: Yeah right. There will be a lot of hawking up. So it’s just, I’m just trying to find other voices who have done these things that we can kind of get theoretical about that people who are more in a really big trench to then just make it seem, just kind of to solidify that there is amazing movements happening around the planet and we can start connecting them.So yeah.  So I’m excited about that. That will be – I don’t know how many episodes but, yeah. But I wanted to wind up the Katy Says podcast with kind of our end of the year tradition.


DANI: Mm-hmm


KATY:  Which is to do this series of questions that I first got, I don’t know, four or five years ago I did an interview for, oh, remember what it was called?  Oh, it was for the Enlightened Network… Enlightened Network podcast, I guess.


DANI: Yeah.  Enlightened Networking.


KATY: Yes. And she sent them out and was like, “Hey, I do these at the end of every year. I kind of get a sense of reflecting on the previous year before resolving.”  A lot of people are going to be resolving and setting resolutions for this time of year. Although we talked about it before – I always think of back to school as the true – like September to me is where I resolve. At the end of the year, because we do this, we just kind of look back on what did we say last year we thought this year would be about? How well did it line up? And I think then have to reflect on those triumphs. You have to actually sit with it physically write it down.


DANI: It’s really helpful.


KATY: It is!


DANI: I agree with you.


KATY:  And eye opening. I forget things that I’ve done. I forget things that I thought I wanted to do. And then, of course, there’s the things that I never get around to doing that I want to that it’s helpful to keep bringing up and eventually go, “ok well here’s a five-year pattern. You’ve wanted to do this but never have. So why?”  So yeah. We’re gonna do it.


DANI: Excellent. I look forward to it. Let’s do it.


KATY: Let’s do it. So I get to… you’re just a guest. I get to interview you. You get to sit back.


DANI: I have always just sat back, just so you know.  I just thought we were having a chat.  


KATY: Then carry on. Carry on. As you were. Ok, so, so the first question… I feel like we’re gonna have so much to talk about.  The first question, the name of this question series is “Completing and Remembering 2017”. We’ve kind of – I’ve always made it about your health or your movement. I mean you can take these series of questions and do it for anything. You can just do it for remembering 2017. But I’m always thinking about health or movement wise is how I’m framing these questions. So the first one is:  What was your biggest health triumph in 2017?


DANI:  For me it was I really finally broke away from social media. I do a break in July for a month at a time. I did that last year and it was good. But it just kind of like slowly crept back in. So I did it this last July and the funny part is that I got this job where I have to post on social media once a day during the school year. And I was like, “Oh, how am I gonna do that?” But after I took that month off, I just made a decision right then and there at the end of that July that I really don’t need to do this anymore. Especially since I’m gonna have to do it for this job once a day. And so I just go in once a day with my post already made up so it’s not like I linger while I create my post or whatever on Facebook, and do it for my job and then that’s it. And it’s just been so huge. Like I just don’t do Instagram anymore. I don’t Facebook. I don’t tweet. I don’t know. For a while it’s kinda I felt a, you know, that fear of missing out a little bit.


KATY: Mm-hmm.


DANI: But now it’s just a part of my life to not have it in my life anymore. It’s like the good old days.  So for me, it’s been huge and now it’s just simply that 5 minute a day or less tool that I have to do for my gig. And that’s it. And it’s not about me. That’s the other thing. It’s because I’m posting on behalf of a school. And what’s going on at the school. So it’s kind of cool just to take the me out of it and just be about this mission of what’s happening.  How about you? What was your biggest health.


KATY: Wait, first I have to… I have a picture of you loitering on Facebook, like, if Facebook had a corner you’d be in like leaning up against it. Like I’m not lurking around. I’m not loitering. I’m getting in, I’m getting out. IT’s not about me.


DANI: Yeah. It’s seriously like embarking and disembarking on a subway or something. I’m in and out. And I just keep my head down while I’m in there. And it’s been huge. Sometimes if I’ll go in and I’ll see “oh you have 30 new notifications” or whatever, and I’ll start to check and then I just realized that’s how it draws me back in.


KATY:  Sucks you bookend. Yeah.


DANI: It’s not that I’m ignoring everybody. And I love everybody. I just don’t feel the need to live there anymore.  That’s the way it kind of went for me.


KATY: Love it.


DANI: Yea.


KATY: For me, I just put my birthday walk.


DANI: Oh that was great.


KATY: Yeah, it was like 46 miles in two days. Maybe in a little bit more. So yeah, that was a lot of mileage. You know I had done a long one the year before but the thought of having it… and you recover from a long one the next day – you definitely feel it – so the idea of waking up and to do another long one the second day…


DANI : What was that like? Waking up and thinking… I mean how did you….what was going on in your head?


KATY: Well, the first year I did 30… I think I ended up doing something like 36 miles, 36 or 37 miles in one day and I had that ankle that just wasn’t aligned very well and so I beat it up. To the point, I think I might have even given myself a precursor to a stress fracture. I don’t know if there’s an actual stress fracture but there was definitely some swelling.


DANI: Mm-hmm.


KATY; And so I wasn’t walking really well the next day and it took a few days for things to smooth out. And that ankle kind of bugged me for a good couple of months. But I sorted out what the issue was. I sorted out the issue of the shoes and the movements that my ankle was and wasn’t capable of doing and I fixed that. So the next time I had no foot issues at all, either day. So it wasn’t actually a big deal at all. It was a mental game. It was a problem with me mentally because I was like, “What’s it gonna be like to get up the next day?” because of the year before. But because I did my leg work, point wink, it wasn’t even an issue.


DANI: That’s cool.


KATY: I just got up. And the first day was freezing rain. So it was about 17 miles the first day and then the second day was close to 30. So yeah…


DANI: Wow. That’s awesome.


KATY:  It was fine. Yeah.


DANI: I hope to get to go on one of those with you sometime.


KATY: I’m gonna do another one. March 4th’s coming up. So it’s definitely something we can get together and do.


DANI: You’ll be like Forrest Gump. You’ll just have all these people trailing behind you, you know.


KATY: I am like Forrest Gump.


DANI: Well you said it, I didn’t.


KATY: That’s right. And we appreciate it.  One thing that I’ve never done before is pulled up my answers from previous years before doing this. But do you remember what your intention for 2017 was that you set at the beginning of last year?


DANI:  Oh I think so. Wasn’t it I was going to walk 2017 miles or something like that.


KATY: I don’t know.


DANI: I can’t remember.  I didn’t look at my answers this year. That is so weird. Because…


KATY: Pull up!  You said you were gonna do a pull up this year. It was the second year you were gonna try to do a pull-up.


DANI: Is this cuz I called you Forest Gump?


KATY: No it’s because there’s a man who, I think is a listener. But he’s also a writer but he uses his blog to talk about him transitioning and doing more movements.


DANI: Mm-hmm.


KATY: And he did a blog post called, “I did a chin up.”


DANI: Who is this?


KATY: His name is Philip Brewer.


DANI: I know Philip. Yeah. He speaks like Esperanto. He’s awesome.


KATY: He’s very awesome.  So, Philip Brewer, he posted a blog post. And the blog post is like, it’s not even a paragraph long and I love it so much. It was called, “I did a chin up.” And the blog post essentially says; for the first time since elementary school I did a pull-up. And there’s a couple other sentences and then it’s like and all it took was three years.


DANI: Wow.


KATY:  Of ceaseless work.


DANI: Ok, then I need to talk to him because that’s part of my problem is the ceaseless work part.  


KATY: Chin up. You did a chin up!


DANI: Good job Philip!  Let’s move forward away from that.


KATY:  You’re like now be quiet.  Ok. What was the smartest health or movement decision you made in 2017?


DANI: Oh that one is easy because it’s been an interesting year for health for me. I got a new dog. I have one old dog and one cold dog – doesn’t like to go out in the cold in the morning. So I got another dog who has to walk. He just has this kind of energy and he has to go and move like seriously every day. And so because my schedule changed with working 40 hours a week, I was always an early riser anyway but now I have to get up. He makes me walk every morning. So even though I have to get up at 4:30 in the morning, I do it because this dog needs it so badly. I need it. But I would find a way with this new schedule to kind of be like, “I’m too tired. I don’t have time.”  It’s extra early but he makes me do it so good one on ya Rubin.


KATY: That’s actually a great strategy for parents or anyone who is like, “How can I get my partner or my kids to move more?” It’s like act like a dog. Like just every morning go into their room at 5 am and start poking your nose into them and be just like whining…


DANI: Chew up their stuff and…


KATY: A little whining and just arf arf… just make it so uncomfortable to not go with you that they’re like, “Fine.”


DANI: Yeah it would be detrimental if I didn’t walk this dog every day.


KATY: Make it detrimental if they don’t go with you. Chew up their stuff.


DANI: What about you?




KATY: You will love this. And I think just you alone can super appreciate it. I came up with and actually set in motion a new book.


DANI: Oh my gosh.


KATY: And then I canceled it.


DANI: HUH?  What?


KATY: Yeah.


DANI: Wow.


KATY; Yeah. I’m still writing the book. This was an extra book. This was a hail Mary in before like right before 2017 was over I was like “oh my gosh and another thing it’s gonna be so great and it’s gonna be so easy…”  And I just got it in and I pushed it through, you know, and then I just, I saw my own behavior and I canceled it.


DANI: That’s pretty good.


KATY: This just happened within 48 hours. It’s within 48 hours that I made this in 2017 improve my health decision.  


DANI: How do you feel about that decision?


KATY: Fantastic.


DANI: Good for you.


KATY: Fantastic. And then my husband was like “good decision.” And I was like, “Why didn’t you say that as I was ramping it up?”  He’s like, “because no one can tell you what to do. You have to do it.” I was like, “Oh yeah.”


DANI: Yeah. I’m really proud of you.


KATY: Cancelled a book. Thank you. I’m proud of myself as well. And it’s not that I’m not gonna do it. It’s just that I’m not gonna do it now in a way that makes stress or chaos the momentum for my work.


DANI: Mmm.


KATY: Like I’m gonna actually have to become less lazy and manifest my creativity in a different way.


DANI: Wow. That’s pretty cool.


KATY: And it’s going to have to be … yeah, so we’ll see. It could be that this book never gets written now, but whatever.  Ok, well… what single word best sums up your 2017 health or movement experience?

DANI: Ok, I’d like to say the single word but my answers that are coming after will explain it. So don’t make me explain this word, ok?


KATY: Ok. Ok.


DANI:  My one word that best sums up this 2017 health experience is “confounding.” Go.


KATY: I don’t even want you to explain it.  Well, mine I could say something similar to mine but it’s essentially grieving.


DANI: Wow.  Are you not…are you gonna not… ok.


KATY: I thought it was “you’re not gonna live right, I’m not gonna…”  And actually, it’s interesting some of my subsequent questions will also explain it, essentially…


DANI: Ok, yeah. I’m cool.


KATY: Let’s do it. Let’s let it happen naturally.  Ok. Greatest lesson you learned about health in 2017?


DANI: Ok, so this is part of the explanation and I know that you’ve said this and I’ve said it but when you live it, it’s kind of like your husband kind of not being able to tell you to not write the book. You have to figure stuff out. Sometimes on a cellular level. My greatest lesson was you cannot bank health.


KATY: Yeah.


DANI: Dang-it!


KATY:  That’s so true.


DANI: You cannot do it. I just think for the last, what, 7, 8 years since I’ve been doing your work? That’s really all I’ve been doing, is just you know getting to a much better spot. And I was but then with this new gig I had to let some of that fall off and I got into some old patterns and it was just weird to have some stuff that I had shrugged off 8 years ago come back because of old movement patterns.


KATY: Wow.


DANI: You’re just never over, you’re never to a place I think where you can sit back and loiter in the corner. I mean it’s always an active thought and motion towards your health.


KATY: Yes. And I think that that – that’s so profound because that is one of my big issues with movement as therapy or movement as medicine versus movement as nutrition.


DANI: Mm-hmm.


KATY: Because nutrition is: hey these things go away from adding these in to your daily diet forever and ever because if they’re not there the same issue arises and so many people are struggling to fix their physical structures through a short bout of therapy and then when they don’t see things get better, or get better but then come back to where they were once they’ve, not stopped with the inputs. Then they think that there was an issue with the therapy rather than going this is just like nutrition. You have to keep doing it.


DANI: Yeah. You can’t just eat vitamin c one time. It just doesn’t work that way.


KATY: No no.


DANI: And I know that but to actually see it happen. It was like oh wow.


KATY: Yeah.


DANI: She does know what she’s talking about.


KATY: Well like, you get it. Awesome.


DANI: Yeah, it’s real.


KATY: Ok are you ready for mine?


DANI: Yes.


KATY: This is the greatest health. This is the greatest lesson. And I think it’s, you could say it’s about health, it’s really for me about everything but since everything is the environment for my physical structure and my mental structure then this is what I learned. It’s a flowchart. It’s a flowchart I saw in a presentation. The flow chart was “Do you have a problem? No? Then why are you worrying?”  “Do you have a problem. Yes?  Can you do something about it? Yes? Then why are you worrying?” and “Do you have a problem?  Yes? Can you do anything about it?  No?  Then why are you worrying?”


DANI: Mmm.


KATY: And it just, I don’t know why.  Maybe I like geeky diagrams but it basically helped me see the difference between taking action to solve something and expressing or expending a lot of personal worry or internal negativity and having constant turmoil and mistaking that for taking action.


DANI: Right.


KATY: Like the thinking about it and ruminating on it was, in fact, improving the situation when it doesn’t, wasn’t impacting the situation at all, much to my own physical detriment. So now I have just really come to see deep-seated discontent as a separate issue from what’s going on externally and I know that that’s probably the foundational tenant for a lot of ways people are pursuing their lives but for me I just needed this flowchart and I was like, “Oh, this part doesn’t have to be tied to working towards improving the situation.” So…


DANI: Right.


KATY: …that was powerful for me.


DANI: That’s good. I’m happy for you.


KATY: I feel like I used to really know that but it kind of faded like the more you know then you’re like, Oh my gosh and then…


DANI: Well the world is always changing though.


KATY: Sure. Sure.


DANI: I saw a quote years ago, like 4 years ago, that said, “Worry has never fixed anything.” And I just like, it just hit me. It’s like, “huh, yeah, you know action cures fears.”  It is a huge energy suck internally.


KATY: Well especially if you’re not processing what you’re going to do about it.


DANI: Mm-hmm.


KATY: You know what I mean? If you’re just…


DANI: Right.


KATY:  I was just like “Ok wait stop. Hold On.  What action were you proposing?”


DANI: Right. That’s awesome.


KATY: And also verbalizing. In the beginning of Movement Matters, I had heard Ashley Judd say to point out an issue without simultaneously proposing a solution was a particular form of, I don’t know what she called it if it was abuse or whatever. But I was like, oh ok. So then when I have that feeling of like “Oh I don’t want to change this.” Ok well then sit down. What’s the action that I propose. And then the negativity that I feel about it is converted into the steps that I think would solve it. I don’t know. It’s just been helpful for me personally.


DANI: Excellent. That is good.


KATY: Ok. Most loving service you performed in 2017.

DANI: Ok. That was just being really present and loving and patient with two teenagers. Because it requires, and you will see,


KATY: I know.


DANI: …it requires a lot of love and fortunately, I remember what it was like to be a teenager. Like it really hasn’t left my head at all. It’s a little bit easier for me to remember and understand what’s going on but it can really be rough on you as a parent no matter how awesome your kids are. Because it’s just part of the natural human progression. I mean I think at this point the things they go through as teenagers is really nature’s way of helping us let go of them because up until they became teenagers I would look at them every day and think, “I love their little faces so much. How will I ever live without them? I love you. Oh no, I’ll die if they move away.”  Then they hit teenagers and you’re like, “Yep, it’s ok.”


KATY: I’m ready. I’m good.


DANI: You can go and I’ll live without you.  I really think that’s the progression. It’s just nature’s way of holding our hand and saying “you’ll be fine.”


KATY: Right.


DANI: That is it. That is, I think because it requires a lot of love. And a lot of presence.  


KATY: Are they aware of your love and presence?


DANI:  That’s the thing. Is even when they’re saying “get away” you kind of just have to be there anyway.


KATY: Oh… you know this is just hearing that it doesn’t change my answer. My answer is the same but I see my answer in a different way. So for me, it was, I’m gonna cry. If I cry just go with it.  It was midwifing the death basically of my father.


DANI: Mm-hmm.


KATY: And it’s the same, for me, you know especially coming from so much work in the birth in the first few moments of a life coming in, you know, and all the different ways that that can be and then to see basically the bookend of that is not something that a lot of people have experienced.  I certainly, maybe people listening to this podcast there are certainly plenty of people all around the world who have been in that role multiple times but it’s kind of something that in our culture isn’t as prevalent. And it was like an at home death. It was like a bookend of what you call what you’d consider a home birth. So it was a non-medicalized home death. Very peaceful, but having all of these same movements of tremendous love or space for basically the experience that the person was going to have and to observe it and to be there to respond to it but to not direct it with how I felt it should go. You know what I mean?


DANI: Yeah.


KATY: So it’s like a cycle.  You have a kid and you’re like, “oh, this is what love is.”  And then you have a teenager and then you’re like, “No THIS is what love is”. And then to become the adult child, as a parent…


DANI: Oh wow.


KATY: …you’re like, “Oh, this, this is … THIS is what love is.”  And it’s all like that.


DANI: I know. So many phases.


KATY: It’s all the phases of it and you get the full picture of the capacity for it by moving through all of the phases. So that was forever transformative.


DANI: Wow.


KATY: So, what was your biggest piece of unfinished health or movement business in 2017.


DANI: All right. Well, I’m gonna have to say the pull-up. This is 3 years running. It’s just OH, I have to talk to Philip because I find it so dreary to work on it. It’s just not… I have to make it interesting. Well, I found out this spring that I was trying to do a pull-up and that starting with a chin-up was easier?  Is that true? Because I was showing somebody what I was doing and she was like, “Oh, well try it underhand. And that’s easier.”  So that was one thing that I did change. But I didn’t complete that and I didn’t work that hard on it. So that explains why I didn’t complete it.


KATY:  This is no mystery.


DANI: I didn’t worry about it though so that’s good.


KATY: There you go.


DANI: Also I had set out to walk and document on Instagram my 2017 miles and I stopped, the same time I got my job, so my available hours kind of shifted to walk that amount of time every day. So it had to be 5 and a half miles, seven days a week to make that happen. So that shifted, the available time. And then also I stopped documenting. So I still was walking every day, just not that huge amount. Who knows. Maybe some day I’ll achieve it, but maybe not. But that’s unfinished for me. Did not complete it. And I’m usually pretty good about completing those big things like that.


KATY:  Well we all have to have a mountain.


DANI: Yes. How about you? What’s your unfinished health business?


KATY: Well, I was kind of looking back at last year and I didn’t give up coffee.  Like not like, I didn’t even come close to it. I didn’t even try. It was … it didn’t even fall off my radar. I took it off my radar as a conscious choice.


DANI: Mm-hmm.


KATY: So yeah. I mean some of the other things that I planned and intended to do and they happened but not that. Not that stimulant for me. I’m still unable to execute my daily life without it. So it will still be something I’m paying attention to.


DANI: Yeah.


KATY: I did grind it by hand. I ground it by hand.


DANI: That’s good!


KATY: I definitely worked to reduce the amount of outsourced work associated with it.  And oh we went to New Zealand for a couple months and we took portable cups. So we used zero paper cups.


DANI: Awesome.


KATY: Like I don’t think we used any this whole year.


DANI: That’s awesome.


KATY: I mean, stuff tied around the coffee was definitely altered but I’m still zeroing in on the coffee. It was an intense year. I’d actually like to thank coffee. I’d like to thank coffee for getting me through 2017 this year. I feel completely grateful to it.


DANI:  I have to tell you, I got off it for like three or four months and then when I started this new job after a month or three weeks into the job I started coffee again.  I just… I’d like to thank coffee too.


KATY: And all of the people and labor that goes into it.


DANI: Yes. Thank you.


KATY: I mean it’s not even the coffee. It’s that this life’s work…


DANI: Right.


KATY: … I’m so grateful to it.  And I know that changing my relationship with it is in the future and it’s always conscious as I’m participating in that cycle and I’m going to be grateful for it and also continue to strive to deal with my own heavy preferences, right? That I’m unable to negotiate.


DANI: Right.


KATY: Like that’s always a personal effort that I’m trying to make. So coffee, you’re on the list. So… what about your health or movement that you’re most happy about completing in 2017.


DANI: Ok. So this isn’t huge but it kind of was for me. So I stopped dying my hair, right? I think before the end of 2016. Like I made this decision to do this. And then it took until late this summer to have all the dye job grown out. I think it’s just growing out the dye job and letting that white and silver show has been awesome for me. I have dyed my hair kind of reddish for 20 some years and then once I let my hair grow out I realized I did not look good as a redhead. Like my natural color, the color I was born with, made my skin look the best, and most glowy, and I just, I look younger. Even though I have grey hair, I look younger in my opinion.


KATY: I just saw you. You do!  It’s like your skin…


DANI: I know it’s so weird.


KATY:  That’s the color your skin is supposed to lay against your hair sort of warm and glowy.


DANI: Exactly. Had I, you know, woulda, shoulda, coulda. But I’m so happy I did it now and people said, “Oh you should color it so you don’t have any transition” and you know last year you were like, “There’s no ugly transition, it’s just transition.”


KATY: Right.


DANI: So I just let it be a transition. I took pictures. I enjoyed every minute of it. I never once was like, “Aaaah!”  I was just present and loved it and now I’m so happy I did it. I loved it. That was my big big thing. Because it wasn’t really so much, yeah it’s physical health because you’re not coloring your hair and you’re not buying all these chemicals and stuff but at the same time…


KATY: And also you’re more comfortable with who you are. Accepting.


DANI: Yeah. Yeah.  How about you?  What was your – what are you most happy about completing?


KATY:  When I was reading that question I was like does that mean like thank goodness this is over or like… or just the fact that you made it through?


DANI: I did it!


KATY: I think it was just two months of basically living out of a suitcase with two small kids or two young kids. I mean they’re 5 and 6 so they’re not toddlers anymore. So yeah, two months of uncomfortable living. Like in single…it wasn’t hotels. I mean sometimes it was tents. Sometimes it was a small studio apartment, you know, and just being completely, because we went out of the country. So just that.  And it was uncomfortable and I don’t mean unpleasant. The discomfort was planned and welcome.


DANI: Right.


KATY: But I am glad that I completed it. Like as a family unit we negotiated tiny living without very many of our comforts. Although will full acknowledgment that we are heavily comforted all the time even when we’re going without our comforts. But just being slightly outside of this comfort zone and the awareness that it brings. So I was glad to make it through that.  And be back home now. We just got back so it’s just kind of still…two weeks today.


DANI: Oh cool.


KATY: So yeah. I’m glad we did it. I’m glad it’s over. And I’m glad we did it. And we might do it again.


DANI: Oh good!


KATY: Who are the three people that had the greatest impact on your health 2017? Or your movement.


DANI:  Ok.  Yes.  So my daughter and my son and my father-in-law. And I will tell you why. My daughter she just has listened when I have been always be like, “keep the edges of your feet straight.” Like she listened about that stuff. So watching her transition that way and grow up with that kind of stuff under her belt has been really good for me and not just a pat on the back but also just like “keep doing what you’re doing for yourself.” BEcause you can see the difference it’s making for her. So that was good.  My son, who actually can do many pull-ups, like he set out to do them and he’s so driven that now he’s just all lean and muscle-y and can do many pull-ups over and over again. I’m gonna ask him to actually coach me in my pull up adventures. And my father-in-law because he got really sick. He’s 84 and has always been in very good mental and physical health. Always taking care of himself, always moved all the time. And he got pancreatic cancer and he was supposed to be dead already but because of his mental and physical attitude and some great surgery, he is still alive and it just, it’s good to look at him. I was with him in Mexico last month and he wanted to go ride ATVs through the jungle and he had just gotten out of cancer surgery two months before. For me, just seeing that mental attitude of, just let’s keep doing stuff. Let’s keep moving, is good for me. So he’s been very inspiring to watch. Who are your three people?


KATY:  Well, I’m thinking again because it’s again it’s like a bookend to your answer where we’re just on the same page. I talked earlier that grief was my word for this year and that’s because I lost three people within six weeks, I think. So, my father passed away who was almost 90, just to kind of get a sense of the spectrum of the experience, right?


DANI: Right.


KATY: So there’s a spectrum, definitely. So it was my father who was 90. My best friend who was 50, who had cancer. And then the other, he’s not my father-in-law but he’s my sister’s father-in-law, the other family patriarch who, was still… he moved into living off of the land like some time just living in a teepee or cloth shelter…


DANI: Oh wow.


KATY: … when he was in his 40s and was still, I think he was 87 or 88. He and my dad were very similar in age. And they all three passed away within six weeks and they all had different elements that really impacted my health in the way that how I was afterward. Not just that they impacted it during their process because I was so integral with the process with at least a couple of them, but just in the understanding that came after the fact of, you know, my dad who was 90. He was taking supplements when he was 30. His mother, my grandmother, was like a super health nut, kind of back in the 60s and 70s. He took 12 supplements a day and he exercised every single day and he had, what we on all perceptions, to be a very stressful life. He was an air traffic controller…


DANI: Oh wow.


KATY:… the most stressful job, I think, statistically. Smoker. Also a crop duster in the DDT era…


DANI: Oh my gosh.


KATY: … open cockpit, DDT, for decades.  I don’t think he smoked while he spraying DDT but I’m not sure that he wasn’t.  And then 10 kids. So it’s like as far as like all of the things that we would say are hyper-stressful…


DANI: Mm-hmm.


KATY: … he had them all but he was just a lighthearted, generous, funny, positive person. Who did not worry. And even when he was at the point when he was landing airplanes and dealing with catastrophes and stuff, he didn’t have a lot of negative processing and turmoil. He was just fixing the problems as they came in and he did not have an issue with that inner voice or whatever. He just didn’t have that.


DANI: That’s awesome.


KATY: Yeah. And like someone really choosing to be like, “I’m good. Here we go.” And then you know to someone who has cancer and is not really to go but who is accepting going through this period of acceptance. So I just, after this year, I just want to recognize the gift that every minute is and everything that I do, I’m just, “Is this the most authentic version of what I want to be doing.” What I would actually say is a way that I behave. So it’s been a way to calibrate my own behavior, my own thoughts, the way I prioritize things. So, they impacted me in 2017, but definitely also going forward. It’s just a huge perspective to have so much transition in a short period of time of lots of different types so I’m definitely grateful for this year.


DANI: Mmm.  Yeah, it’s been kind of an intense year.


KATY: Yeah. But at the same time, so I’m gonna give my answer for the greatest health risk and I’ll ask you after. 




KATY: It’s related because there was so much travel involved. My dad was here with me but my friend wasn’t and my brother died too within…this is just so much personal information … but within also the year. About 7 months before my dad. So I think I counted and it was 36 flights.


DANI: Wow!


KATY: Within 12 months and that wasn’t even for only, like for work. I might have left some work ones out of there.


DANI: Right.


KATY: And it was just like. I feel so – I know people travel professionally, especially on planes. But it was risky. It was taxing for sure. And I don’t know if that’s what they mean by the question but I felt like it was risky to do that much, not the flying, but it’s three hours to an airport from here and just the standing and the driving around.


DANI: Oh sure.


KATY: It was just… and I would have easily done it again, but it was taxing.  What about you?


DANI: And I think that question could be interpreted however you want. I think before I’ve taken it to mean “Ooh what exciting thing did you do that was scary?”


KATY: Right right.


DANI: But this year I interpreted it the same way as you, like something that was really taxing on my health and it was getting a full-time job.  Because I have worked from home and kind of kept my own schedule for the last, what, 15 or so 20 years. And having to be somewhere for a time, at a time, has been really intense. And I’m fortunate in that my job is so varied like I’m never sitting for any period of time. I have a standing workstation. I can have all my gear there and my rock trays and my calf stretch and wear what I want so I don’t have to. I can’t go barefoot. But, you know, just wear what I want because it’s casual. So that part’s been cool but it’s just, it’s been huge getting text neck from being at my computer too long or holding a phone between my shoulder and my head, you know, when I’m in my office.and so that’s been really intense.  And why it is intense, I think, is because you don’t realize how, I didn’t, how much your old patterns related to your stress can come into things.


KATY: Mmm.


DANI: You know, I think I’m good at my job and it’s exciting and creative and varied and I’m never bored. But when the pressure comes in, I started getting lower back pain. I’m like, why? My back hasn’t hurt in 8 years since I started doing Katy’s stuff. What is the deal?  But I was tucking my pelvis. My psoas was shortening in response to the stress. And it wasn’t anything that was precipitated by conscious thought. It was just a natural regular human reaction. So my body was following suit and all of these problems that I had gotten rid of … That’s why I said you can’t bank health. And that’s part of why it was so confounding for my one word. Because it’s like, wow all these things I’d gotten away from but a month and a half of doing something stressful, or high pressure, and you fall back into those patterns that we’d so very carefully thought we’d trained ourselves out of. Constant vigilance.   That was a long answer, huh?


KATY: Well, you were explaining another one. And I think, too, for the people listening you know, I think there is, there’s always two things going on. When you start to move differently or hold yourself differently it’s easy to do that within the space of an exercise class or exercise time because that’s what you’re doing. So it’s hard to delineate what is beneficial. Is it the physical adjustment of the body? Or is it the awareness – is it the fact that you’re clued into your body. That you’re paying attention to your body.


DANI: Right.


KATY: So there’s two things going on that are beneficial and they might both be necessary. So as we try to figure out how to move differently within a life that we’re not changing much of the environment, we’re just trying to change how we behave within it, we might have some of the position down but we don’t have some of the intention down.


DANI: Right.


KATY: Right? So. That’s what we call stress. Or things that are distracting us or taking us away from paying attention to all parts of ourselves.


DANI: Mmm.


KATY: So I find delineation of things very interesting because we tend to see the benefit of what is most easily seen and measured, like pelvic tilt and root position. The things that you can’t see are the things that are almost impossible to measure and I think are going to stay outside of the arena of scientific knowledge for a long time for that reason that you can’t measure the health benefits of having the space to listen or pay attention to your own body.


DANI: Yes.


KATY: So how do you… so that seems to be necessary. But I don’t know how you quantify it to the point where it actually is given a weighted value to go, “No really, you might want to…”  Just in the way that we would make space for all sorts of dietary, even mechanical nutrients because we’ve can distribute them and see them so yes, get your desk set up so that you have the healthy food in the kitchen and your ergonomics just right but that other things, like maybe you need space to not have to operate inside this box all the time is going to take a while to come back in. So…


DANI: Yes.


KATY: Anyway, that was just a ramble. Sorry. Ramble on!  Ok, biggest health surprise in 2017? And it better be a pull-up!


DANI:  HA!  It wasn’t…it isn’t even a fun surprise. Like if this jumped out of a cake at me, I would send the cake back. I got diverticulitis.


KATY: Oh my goodness!


DANI: I know. And it was so…that’s where the other part of the confounding… it’s like what? And I was reading up on it and the way to prevent it is like a high fiber diet and regular exercise and that has been my life. I have been concerned about fiber and my digestion since I was like 12. So it…


KATY: Wow!


DANI: When I told my husband that he was like, “You’re the most high fiber person I know.”  So that was weird. And then I was reading that 10% of people over 40 have it. That’s a huge statistic, I think. So that was confounding. It was like, “Well, I’ve done all this stuff that I thought was right and was feeling right.” And how that happened… and it’s a recent diagnosis so I’m still kind of just like grappling with that. Surprise. How about you?


KATY: Wow. I’m sorry to hear that. For me, what was my biggest health surprise? This one feels like a different type of interpretation of the question. For me, it was playing with my sleep in a different way that, like I’m often tired especially when the sun goes down, like to go to bed at 7:30 with my kids is what feels most natural. But that when I do, I wake up at like 3 perfectly wide awake and I can actually be awake from that time on. Or, if I just really really pay attention to how I feel, then I can be up from 3-5 and then go back to bed from 5 until 6:30 or 7. And have, like I’ve been playing with that – like that one just seems so wrong to me. Like, oh my gosh, I have to get all this sleep and I have to get back to bed but I’ve just found that this is this natural rhythm that I have at this time of my life and this season … at this age.  And it’s been fantastic to go wow, I have 3 to 5 am as like quiet, middle of the night time for me to do a lot of those things for myself that I don’t normally get a chance to do. Read.  Make a really gorgeous cup of tea and curl up with a blanket. I’m getting my self-care in the middle of the night and it’s not like I’m dragging myself awake.


DANI: Right.


KATY: Like tuning in to that biorhythm is amazing.


DANI: That’s really cool. We’ve talked about a book before that I really liked. It was about a guy that lived among a tribe of the Amazon. And he would talk about how they would get up at 1 in the morning. They go to bed as soon as the sun went down and then they would get up and they would sit around and eat and chat a little bit for a few hours and kind of just be – have it like a gentle time and then go back to bed.  And that was really, for them, the natural way of their sleep pattern. And it wasn’t unusual. It was part of the culture.


KATY: Well yeah, I wonder if it’s just…


DANI: That might be the way that humans originally …


KATY: Or that’s how humans behave within this environment that’s got a lot of movement, a lot of temperature variation.


DANI: Right. Who knows.


KATY: Well there’s all this kind of stuff about plants and how they’re measuring circadian rhythms and how we’re measuring it and all the interference that we have in the way that we measure circadian rhythms and it’s no wonder sleep is so therapeutic because it might be completely off. Like in the way that nutrition could be off, there’s these elements that you’re missing, things you’re getting too much on. That sleep has that capacity for so many people to be a solution.


DANI: Yeah.


KATY: What’s the book? Do you remember what the book is called?


DANI: I think we even have it in one of the notes of the podcast we talked about it. I can’t even remember.


KATY: Let’s add it. We’ll add it to the show notes.


DANI: It’s in one of our old show notes.


KATY: Ok, what important relationship improved most this last year.


DANI: Mm.  Ok, so this goes back to two questions ago where you talked about giving yourself the space to figure out what’s going on. For me, it’s my understanding of those innate responses to situations that were high pressure or stress. And pretty much my breath being in tune with that. And so, yes I fell into old patterns of movement, how my body responded. But because of how I’ve been living the last eight years I was able to key into it right away. It wasn’t a mystery what was happening.  It was like, “Oh, that’s what I’m doing.”  And so immediately I wanted to tune in to that and give that space to not happen. So that’s been really cool. I’ve just been able to feel things happening. Like, oh, my head’s sliding forward.  And that’s why I’ve got a headache for the first time in seven years, or whatever. What’s going on in my mind, like emotionally, that makes that happen. Am I just not paying attention? Am I feeling under pressure?  What is it? Like I feel like I have this bigger toolkit to not just position myself correctly but to pay attention to what precipitated that? What made that happen? How do I deal with it?


KATY: I like that. So basically your relationship improved with yourself which is a … I had a similar answer which is the relationship that improved for me the most this year was the one between me and the voice in my head. That is not me.  And so I just keep saying that the stuff that you hear, that’s not you. It’s you are the person watching or listening or observing that voice in your head. So for me keeping those two separate has been very, very helpful.


DANI: Mm.  


KATY: Compliment that you would have like to receive but didn’t?


DANI:  Um. You smell like campfire smoke.


KATY:  (laughs)  Oh!


DANI: I was not outside enough at all this year. Lots of stuff happened and I just didn’t take the reigns of it. So that was not a good one for me.  What was your compliment you would have liked to receive but didn’t?


KATY: So here’s the thing: So I tried to write a few of them but most of them just came out, like I couldn’t phrase them in a way that was positive. They all felt negative to me so I didn’t answer it.


DANI: That’s a tough one. In fact, when I was reading that it’s like, you know, we should maybe squeeze in there what compliment did you receive that you … or something.


KATY: Well that’s what I… I abstained from answering this because to force me to answer it is to force me to kind of muster negativity and I don’t need to do that. So I left it blank.


DANI: Yeah.


KATY: Take that!


DANI: Well my other one was “What an incredible pull-up.”  No, that kind of bums me out.


KATY: And again, it’s like self-deprecating.


DANI: Yes, well let’s just change that.


KATY: Let’s leave it. No, let’s leave it and just feel ok not answering it.  




KATY: That’s the whole point. You’re not going to be able to eliminate the negativity but you don’t have to engage in it.  Ok, what compliment would you have like to have given. To gave?


DANI:  You sure know how to put up a tent! That goes back to my “I just was not outside enough”.


KATY: Yeah. Well, you’re outside the amount that you could be this year.  What…


DANI: Wait, did you answer that? Or are you skipping that one too? You can skip it.


KATY: I’m skipping it. Because I feel like … if I recognize right now that I didn’t give a compliment I’m gonna go give it. I don’t need to fill it in as a question on a podcast.


DANI: Got it.


KATY: What else do you need to do or say to be complete with 2017.


DANI: Ok, this is one always confounds me.


KATY: Confounding is a big word for you.


DANI: It’s a big one.


KATY: I just have a picture of your loitering confused somewhere on Facebook.


DANI: But confounded is different. Because you’re just like how did this happen.


KATY: Right.


DANI:  So I would say for me it’s just like, “Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. Just keep…” It’s like this journey you just have to keep doing one foot in front of the other no matter what happens. Because you’re never gonna be complete. You’re never gonna reach the peak. And it’s this journey and you just keep on going.


KATY: Yeah.


DANI: How about you?


KATY: For me, it’s do your own work. Do your work and I’ll do mine.




KATY: Ok, we’re gonna have to go faster through these. Because we’ve loitered. We’ve loitered a long time. So good news 2018.


DANI:  I think I know who the loiterer is. But go ahead.


KATY:  I’m gonna get into facebook. I’m just confounded.


DANI : What?


KATY: Ok, what would you like your biggest health triumph in 2018 to be?


DANI: Pull up!


KATY: Such problem answer. I think we should just give like “C” instead of just pull up for everything.


DANI: Yeah!


KATY:  For me, I am planning a monthly twenty-mile walk as a treat for myself. So just do, I’ve done one already to just you know, before it would be an annual thing and I was this can be a monthly thing which is closer to my natural movement pursuance as far as all the categories.


DANI: That’s cool.


KATY: So yes, one long 20 mile, or maybe not long, just 20 miles sufficient walk.


DANI: Sounds good.


KATY: Health advice you want to give yourself for 2018?


DANI: Oh yeah. I got it. Keep up the water drinking. That’s been good.  Stay away from sugar, also good. And go back to meditating. Because I let that fall off my radar.


KATY: What’s that?


DANI: I was doing so well with it and its huge impact for me last year and then I just was like, ” I don’t have time for that. I’m ok now. I’m good”.  What about you?


KATY: Put in the pause.  Which is a bit of advice that I got from someone which is, I’m a hyper producer, again, as I talked about before. But even more, than I produce actual stuff, I produce ideas about stuff. And what happens is when I get an idea I immediately want to set it in action. But I just recognize now that it’s a tactic to keep me from finishing up other things. So just putting in the pause and write down the idea and if I come back to it great and if I don’t, great. It doesn’t really matter. So yeah, it’s just gonna continue on in that spirit.


DANI: Sounds good.


KATY: How are you gonna your movement results in 2018?

DANI: You mean what major effort because there’s a lot of things I do to improve it but I was gonna start dance classes again?


KATY: Ooh what kind?


DANI: Oh, African dance and hip-hop. I used to love to take dance classes before I had kids or got married and it was so much fun. So I’m gonna go back to doing that again.  How about you? What major effort are you planning?


KATY: To reduce my travel and air travel.


DANI: laughs. Why?


KATY:  Well, yeah exactly.  Well and for that reason I’ve been reading a lot of Wendell Berry and there’s the great quote and it’s like, the sentiment is, don’t travel until you’ve slept under every single tree at your own house.


DANI : Mmm.


KATY: So I just like the spirit of that going, oh yea, there’s so much, like it’s not really necessary to kind of look at the stuff that I do and go “Ok what am I intending to do here? How can I do that same thing where I am…” so a lot of the changes that my social media break had me begin. I’m still working through a lot of those and one of those is doing more locally. And I can set up locally. It can be USA being local compared to traveling all over the globe all of the time. I still will keep my obligations to different countries. But to not be striving for that. To being more of an inner-naut than an astronaut.  It’s the same level. It’s the same amount of work. It’s really the same about of reach it’s just that the distribution of that reach is a little bit different. Reducing my air travel is the easiest way to sum that up.


DANI: Cool.


KATY: What are you trying to complete in 2018 or what would you be happy to complete?


DANI: Just lots of camping.




DANI: Lots of camping trips. That would make me really happy.


KATY: Well we’ll come out to you and maybe do one this year.


DANI: That sounds good.


KATY: I know you wanted to hike a mountain last year. You’re gonna start doing some of your mountain ranges. So maybe we’ll camp and hike. The two of us.


DANI: We could do a 14er. That would be fun.


KATY: That would be fun.  For me, again, more of my own food production. Participating less in the current food system that has elements that I would like to see changed so I’m just changing how I do it. But just to ramp that up even more by traveling less as being part of it.  What indulgence are you going to experience? What are you willing to do?


DANI: What am I willing to do? I’m willing to spend money on massages. Spa facials.


KATY: You and I are so close in that same. So for me, it’s sauna.  My husband found one for me for Christmas on craigslist. Someone had built a wooden sauna and so they were selling it and


DANI: Oh my gosh.


KATY: so we went and picked it up on a tiny little thing. So now I have, I’m trying to make it like a community space so it’s not just heat for one. I was like, “Let’s create some sort of full moon, red tent, 20 mile, conclusion ceremony and just have it on rotation so a lot of people can be well in that space.”


DANI: That’s fun. Ooh, have fun with that!


KATY: What most, what would you like to most change about your health in 2018?


DANI: This sounds really weird but just be alone more.


KATY: Oh yes.


DANI: I’m one of those people that I’m good with people but I really need to retreat and just kind of reset and you know I’ve kind of been homeschooling my kids and I’m working around 100 kids a day plus 30 staff and I just kind of need to withdraw and kind of be alone a bit more. Not just my early morning walks but just go do stuff by myself would kind of help reset me a little bit so. Focus on that. How about you? What are you going to change..what would you most like to change about your health?


KATY: Well, so I’m always trying to pursue non-exercise ways of getting in those same movements that we pursue through exercise and then also trying to get that full spectrum of nutritious movement.  So for me, the part that I haven’t figured out how to get in a non-exercise fashion is that 20 minutes of intensity. You know where it’s up like 75 or 85 percent. If I had more hills around me where I could get to that easily. For me, right now, I’d have to definitely do it in the form of exercise. So just trying to figure that out and pursue that. That’s like if I was looking at my diet, that would be one of the biggest holes. That and jumping.  Like power jumping.  Those two would be the deficits that I would see the most. I don’t see them because of the stage of my life because I imagine my nutrients are cyclic to a person, like I’ve said before.  Within a  year, within a lifetime. So I’m just looking through at how I can get more of that. Because I used to get it hauling my kids for things. But now they just can move on their own now so then I’m like, now I have to… So that’s part of growing our own food.  It’s like ok, well then, I’ve been dipping my toes into permaculture. Now we need to get this food forest started and once I have more labor built back in, which also not writing a book this year will help with, then I should be back up to getting it just through hauling and digging and cutting.


DANI: Awesome.


KATY: So but it would be nice to find a way to get it more regularly too. But then I guess it’s like, just go out and labor more regularly. Problem solved. Stop being so lazy Katy. So for me, what am I looking forward to learning in 2018 was how to be alone more. So it’s so interesting it’s very similar to your answer above because there is this very large community. I think that… what’s the poem? A universe in a raindrop.  A drop in the universe, the universe in a drop. That’s what it is. So I think within a community that definitely being present within a larger group of people and having a role is great but at the same time, you have a community of needs within yourself. We need things and I think there’s definite alone time to get to that. My problem is I mistake the time I send everyone away to get my work done as my alone time and it isn’t.


DANI: Mm. It’s really not. I do the same thing.


KATY: Well because there’s a limit. There’s too much going on in my life for me to be well at the level I’d like to be well. I  have to let some things go. Letting some things go in 2018, 2019m 2020 is definitely on my radar going “oh I don’t’ have the capacity to do this without letting other things go.  So for a very long time as a working mother of two children trying to be a full-time parent and also busting out 80 hours a week, my alone time is just my hyper-productive stress work time and then there’s no, and I’m not paying attention to myself during that time because most of my work involves meeting the needs of a hundred thousand other people. So literally my alone time is wading through. Sook, the sauna is definitely my… I read this really great sci-fi book one time about two twins…it doesn’t really matter. Let’s talk about sci-fi. It matters that when I go into the sauna., when I go into that space, it’s very stacked because it is non-work alone time. It’s creating movement passively. So I’m trying to build that into my regular day. So we should go hang out and be alone.


DANI:  Yeah. And not do stuff.


KATY: No. What are you gonna learn?  


DANI: What am I looking forward to learning?  Well, whether we like it or not we age and our bodies do not always follow our input or our wishes, I think. I’m just kind of looking forward to being present and accepting during that journey. Like finding out things about my health, like “What? Diverticulitis?”  I put in the input and my wishes and sometimes it doesn’t always do that and sometimes you have to be Hakuna Matata about it and say, “ok, let’s go on that ride”. I’m looking forward to that presence and acceptance of that journey.


KATY: What’s your risk for 2018?


DANI: I’ve got this longboard. I used to be a skater chick when I was in high school and I bought a longboard this summer off craigslist because I was like, “That looks like fun.” And I took off and got going so fast!  Those things are fast!  And I wiped out. I flew into the air like a starfish. And wiped out pretty good and I have not gotten back on it since. only for little short rides. So I think I would like to get back up on that longboard. Maybe with some elbow pads.


KATY: When I hear longboard I hear surfboard.


DANI: Oh no. So how about you?


KATY: I couldn’t think of anything. Because I was just like, what is actually, like I can’t think of I’m doing anything that’s even possibly risky. That’s a dud answer. Sorry, that’s a snake.

DANI: They don’t all have to be winners.


KATY: It’s like a snake in the fireworks box. They just go ssss.


DANI: Some people have a lot of fun with those things.


KATY:  I actually love snakes I feel really comfortable around snakes.  I think probably my biggest health risk will be speaking more clearly about what I mean by my own work. I think it’s risky in that it’s challenging. It’s challenging to present some of this material. And so the risk, I mean it’s not really a true, physical harm risk but the risk is creating discomfort in other. Which is a space I’m not super comfortable. I want everyone to feel good and comfortable and positive and I just don’t think it’s realistic.


DANI: That’s true.


KATY: Challenging a lot of people to think and move differently. So just being more ok with other people’s own personal journeys and how they relate to mine.  Ok, what are you most committed to changing and/or improving in 2018.


DANI: Increasing my muscle mass and stamina. More hills and more muscle mass.  How ’bout you?


KATY: More self-care which is a mountain in itself for me. What underdeveloped talent are you willing, planning to explore this upcoming year.


DANI: Well, still juggling. Still, want to juggle more than 2 balls. And I would like to learn how to rollerblade.


KATY: Oh well that’s risky behavior right there, right?


DANI: I was at Venice beach and I’m like, “that looks like fun!” So, I want to try that.


KATY: Well, the guy, Jason Lewis, went around the world? Part of it was rollerblading. So you guys should talk. Maybe get some tips.


DANI: Yeah. don’t fall.


KATY: For me, I don’t think it’s a talent but one of the pursuances especially how it relates to my health is to dig into my ancestry a little bit.




KATY: I just posted this on my Instagram but quickly I was reading that eco-based cultures can recite up to 500 years of their ancestry and


DANI: Wow.


KATY: I know!  And that skill, right, especially when you’re not written based, not sure if that’s the right word but if you’re verbal based, story based…


DANI: Right.


KATY: You force yourself to hold a lot more content versus outsourcing it to paper to use as a reference.  It also is a skill that connects you to many others before you which also maybe sets you up for the fact that many come after you. So it’s a way of being able to live and treat the land that you live on, because it’s come from others as a gift and basically you’re gifting it forward so it just has some role in sustainability, I think, as well as stress and patterns of behavior. So I sat down to do it and I was totally stumped on some of my branches. Some of my branches I could go back 2 generations. Some of my branches maybe 4 and then I was like, this doesn’t even matter. People are like… as I’m trying to talk about land-based movements and human behavior, it’s like, I can start with just knowing my own kind of root system, if you will, and it’s been very interesting. Then to find out that a lot of people use that as a tool to kind of better understanding. And so that’d be fun to do with the kids. And also to recognize wow, I have some family trees. But it was all the patriarchal lines. The matriarchal lines are almost completely gone except for the first born girl to a firstborn girl. 6 times on one of my lines. And it’s so interesting on that line I only have the matriarchal line. The matriarchal line was the one that was preserved culturally through stories. And just exploring those phenomenon and being in New Zealand for a time the Maori have like a it’s called a faudi papua tradition which is really understanding their history and taking it back to the plants and animals that superseded them and all the way to the universe and the stars and I was like, that’s a really interesting… it’s just good for me to recognize that I don’t know very much. That culturally this is not very important or in recent times, it hasn’t become very important.  So I’ve been thinking about elders  and again how people move over the land and what their experiences are like so I thought this would be a good way, to supplement other books that I’m reading that aren’t about me or whatever.  So. Ok.  What brings you joy in health? How are you gonna have more of that in 2018?


DANI: Hiking and camping baby! Yeah!


KATY: All right.


DANI: How about you?


KATY: Alone time. Alone time.  It’s pretty great.


DANI: Actually I would like to backpack alone.


KATY: Yeah!


DANI: That sounds really fun to me.


KATY: This summer my girlfriend and I just had a moms camping night out and we just took ourselves and we just, it was the best thing to set up your own tent for your own space and we made an awesome dinner and we went on a night hike and so I wasn’t alone.


DANI: That’s a good idea.


KATY: I didn’t have that discomfort that maybe people have maybe about going out in the wilderness alone but at the same time it was way less required of me and I was like why don’t we do that three or four times a year.


DANI: That’s a good idea.


KATY: So definitely coming up. And it was just take care of yourself. We weren’t trying to do everything together. We just wanted to go have this experience. We just kind of had backup with each other.


DANI: Yeah, that’s cool. It’s a good way to do it.  So what brings you joy in health or how are you going to have more of that in 2018?


KATY: Alone time. That was my alone time.  No the question that you want to be asking is other than yourself who are you most committing to loving and serving?


DANI: And listening to you Katy. Well, of course, my little family. Always. But I’m also trying to be ever open hearted with the people who annoy me or whose behavior baffles me. So I’m trying to fill that gap with better thoughts and not ascribe ill intentions when it seems like there might be. Always trying to be more open hearted.  How about you?


KATY: My local community. My local like within 60 miles local. So just bringing and doing the thing that I normally do, instead of always doing ti on such a huge scale, really scaling it down. Effectively reach the same number of people but just in a more local area. And all the work that I do which is some of it’s nutritious movement and some of what I do is non-nutritious movement Katy Bowman which also is a really big part of who I am. All right. Single-word time. I struggle with this one.  One word that you would like to have as your health movement theme in 2018. And before you do, I pulled up last years word.


DANI: Oh gosh!  Did you?


KATY: I did. I just wanted to see for the both of us if we felt that last year’s’ words summed this up? So ready for your word for 2017?  


DANI:  Yeah.


KATY: You said it would be dynamic.


DANI: Oh ok. It definitely was. Oh my gosh. Wow.


KATY: All right.


DANI:  That’s like the…well good for you. What was your word?


KATY: Mine was low-tech and it definitely was. It was definitely a low tech year with the exception of a hundred thousand miles flown all over the planet. With the exception of the aviation industry, it was low tech.


DANI: Wow. Good for us.


KATY: I thought so. But then it made more pressure to come up with a word because I did not have a word that was right. I had to go for a hyphenated word.


DANI: That’s ok. That’s ok. Do you want me to share my word first?


KATY: I’ll do mine first and then we’ll do yours so we can end with your word.




KATY: Ok. Mine this year is land-beast.


DANI: Land-beast?


KATY: Yes. It’s land-beast. Like, no it’s not land-beast. Land-Based.


DANI: Laughs.  Oh gosh. Ok.  Carry on.

KATY:    Thanks for ruining it though because land-beast would have been such a better word for my health in movement this year.


DANI: And they could really, land-based could be land-beast. So tell me for you what land-based means.


KATY: I don’t really know except that how I’m going to approach this year is through this idea that I am a land-based creature. Like just a keep saying that. Like I’m not a podcaster.  I mean I am also behaving this way but I am a land-based culture and I want this year to be able to embody that more than previous years.


DANI: That’s pretty cool.


KATY: All right land-beast. What are you gonna do?


DANI: This one was actually easy for me to do. It’s always kind of a struggle but escapade.


KATY: sings:  Es -ca- pade


DANI: Yes. I knew you were gonna do that. That’s why I paused to give you a chance to do your Janet Jackson.


KATY: Thanks for letting me sing.


DANI: Sure thing. We all appreciate it because it’s like a free-wheeling escape adventure. So that’s kind of how I interpret my being outside. Keep doing things like getting on that longboard skateboard and just being alone. All of that together seems like an escapade.  sings we’ll have a good time…


KATY: You’re not going to go buy an escapade…


DANI: That’s an Escalade.




DANI: Goofball.  No…


KATY: I would totally buy one if it was an escapade but if it’s an escalade I’m out.


DANI: I don’t even know what that word means but escapade I’ve got.


KATY: All right.


DANI: You land-beast.


KATY: Ok, I want to say that these questions are compliments of Robin Blanc Mascari. She loves hearing how these questions are used so if you want to, you can find them in the show notes so if you go to the website nutritious movement and go to podcast you can actually just drop down in the menu to show notes. You can find these questions. Cut and paste. Create your own answers and if you publish them you can go ahead and email them to She likes to hear how people use them and the answers they come up with. And Dani, I miss you.


DANI: I miss you.


KATY: Thank you for coming on today.


DANI: We need to do this every year.


KATY: We will.


DANI: Because it’s become a source of focus for me. These questions.


KATY: And it’s stacked. Like you can focus on yourself but it turns into something that maybe other people can use. Maybe a bit of entertainment and then also work for both of us.


DANI: Right.


KATY: Ok we’ll see you again on the show. You are not gone, not forgotten. You just … sings Workin’ nine-to-five.


DANI: Yeah, I’m looking forward to your new podcast adventure. Sounds like it’s going to be very interesting.


KATY: It will. Ok friends.


DANI: All right dear. Have a good 2018 for the beginning of it.


KATY: All right. For more information, you can look on Sign up for my information packed newsletters. You can learn something new about movement most days by checking in on my Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram pages. Just search nutritious movement. If you have a question for a future episode, email And on behalf of everyone at Katy Says, the new Move Your DNA podcast and Nutritious Movement thank you for listening. We appreciate your support.


DANI: Goodbye!




VOICEOVER:  Hopefully you find the general information in this podcast informative and helpful.  But it is not intended to replace medical advice and should not be used as such.




Robin Blanc Mascari Questions

Completing and Remembering The Previous Year

What was your biggest triumph this past year?

What was the smartest decision you made this past year?

What one word best sums up and describes this past years experiences?

What was the greatest lesson you learned in the past year?

What was the most loving service you performed this past year?

What is your biggest piece of unfinished business in this past year?

What are you most happy about completing this past year?

Who were the three people that had the greatest impact on your life this past year?

What was the biggest risk you took this past year?

What was the biggest surprise this past year?

What important relationship improved the most in the past year?

What compliment would you liked to have received this past year?

What compliment would you liked to have given in the past year?

What else do you need to do or say to be complete with the results of the past year?

Creating A  New Year

What would you like to be your greatest triumph in the coming year?

What advice would you like to give yourself this coming year?

What is the major effort you are planning to improve your financial results in the coming year?

What would you be most happy about completing this new year?

What major indulgence are you willing to experience this coming year?

What would you like to change about yourself in the coming year?

What are you looking forward to learning this new year?

What do you think will be your greatest risk in this coming year?

What are you most committed to changing about your work and improving during this  year?

What is one undeveloped talent you are willing to explore in the coming year?

What brings you the most joy and how are you going to do or have more of that in your life this year?

Who or what, other than yourself, are you most committed to loving and serving this new year?

What one word would you like to have as your theme in the new year?

Compliments of Robin Blanc Mascari

Are you still interested in learning more on this?

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